Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #6998
From: sqpilot@earthlink <sqpilot@earthlink.net>
Sender: Marvin Kaye <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Intake Manifolds
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:41:52 -0500
To: <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
13B Intake Manifolds
Hi, Barry....sorry for the delay in responding....I flew down to West Palm Beach to try to test fly a 13b powered canard and give a little flight instruction in a Cozy.  I think you made a few of my dormant memory cells come back to life.  I believe that Dave Atkins DID say the injectors are 850cc.   As far as horsepower expected, I will be pretty happy if I can get 170 horsepower. Anything above that is a Christmas present. I do not have a turbo installed.  My engine is now idling nicely around 1400 rpm.  It might idle better at lower rpm's once I lean it out a little and install the prop? Your mention of the duty cycle is interesting....that might be why my throttlebody drips some fuel after engine shut-down, even if I turn off the fuel pumps to kill the engine. Thanks for all of your input and information.  Paul Conner
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:46 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Intake Manifolds

With that clue, I think I know my answer. Atkins must have supplied you with the 850cc injectors that powered the 85-86 GSL-SE 13B. In that iteration of the car, Mazda used those.
 
In 1986-87, Mazda switched to using four 460cc injectors in the naturally-aspirated car and using four 550cc injectors in the Turbo II. While those had more potential for overall fuel flow, it meant that they had them staged. I'm not positive of the exact RPM changeover to using all four but my recollection is that it was 3800 rpm. My Turbo II has a little hicup in acceleration when it passes through that point and the factory wrestled with getting that right--something usually chalked up a bad ground. They worked fine when new but sometimes developed the hicup when they got a little older and the ground was a tad less reliable.
 
How many horsepower did you intend to get out of your turbocharged rig? I think you're fine but might be near the limit at a little over 200 HP. Any projections?
 
You've got 1700cc/min. The naturally-aspirated car ran four times 460cc or 1840cc. The 87 Turbo II ran four times 550cc or 2200cc.
 
Somewhere around here I've got a book on fuel injection that figures out the conversion for fuel adequacy (and helps with the metric/min to pounds/hr conversion). I think you also have to use an 80% or 85% duty cycle or else the injector is basically open all the time, which for some reason isn't recommended.
 
The reason I asked about this is that those 850cc injectors were some of the biggest in the auto world, at least at the time and might be still. Other manufacturers used multiple injectors that corresponded to the number of cylinders, so typically you find hot-rodded Mustangs, etc., using eight, which of course could be smaller individually to sum to an even bigger whole. When I saw your two injectors, the reason I wrote was because I thought you might have discovered some even bigger ones than the GSL-SE.
 
Rumor was that Mazda had a hard time getting the big ones like you've got to run smoothly at the bottom end, which is why they switched in the next iteration of the car to four injectors--but remember they were looking for a smooth 750 RPM idle speed. Aviators need neither that smoothness nor an idle that low.
 
Anyhow, I was just surprised to see the two big MONGO injectors feeding all that airflow. I think the Mazda 850cc injectors might be on that table that Paul Lamar reprints from time to time, if you're interested in working out the lbs/hr and then BSFC conversion to re-confirm the top end of your fuel flow.
 
Barry Gardner
Wheaton, IL
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Intake Manifolds

I purchased the throttlebody, ECU and programmer from Atkins Rotary. The throttlebody came with the injectors already installed.  Not sure what the injector flow, model, etc are.  I have that info somewhere, but it will take some searching through a lot of e-mails to find it.   Paul Conner
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B Intake Manifolds

Paul Conner--
 
I was looking at that picture of your manifold you enclosed. It seemed like you only had two injectors.
 
If true, what kind of fuel flow are they rated for and what is the brand/model number?  Those must be big--no, MAMMOTH--injectors.
 
Barry Gardner
Wheaton, IL
 
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