Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #2588
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] today's engine results- still no joy
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:15:47 -0400
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Message
 

 

 

8-17-03  /  8 hours  /  1336 total

 

Started the engine with new injectors, and didn’t note any improvement (grumble, grumble).  Here’s the troubleshooting sequence.  All testing today was at low power of 3000 rpm and below, and the backup controller never made any difference.

 

Original condition: 

Normal – rough  (using primaries)

Primary sw off- smooth (using secondaries)

Secondary sw off- rough (using primaries)

 

Swapped Primary and Secondary wires in the engine compartment:

Normal- rough (using secondaries)

Primary sw off- rough (using primaries)

Secondary sw off- smooth (using secondaries)

 

The above test is of course a contradiction, but I tend to believe the individual tests, not the one with both switches on.

 

Rusty, I don't necessarily see a contradiction in the above condition.  In both cases, when the primary injectors are switched OFF (whether using the Primary Switch (Original Condition) or when  using the Secondary Switch (Swapped Condition)), the engine runs smoothly. I agree that the second configuration in Normal mode (both switches on), you might expect the secondaries to run smoothly acting as primaries (since they ran smoothly as secondaries) - however, that would depend on their flow rate - if the secondaries are higher flow rate (>460 cc/min), then it might cause the mixture to be overly rich when acting as primary injectors at lower rpms.

 

 

Replaced Primary injector connectors (pri and sec wires still reversed):

Things do seem better, but it’s hard to believe, especially since the original plugs looked so much better than the ones that I have installed now.  Still not sure this made a difference.  The engine will now run reasonably well with either primary or secondary switch off, but I noticed that the mixture is way different for each.  Maybe this has been part of the problem all along.

 

If the primary and secondary injectors are not the same flow rate  then you should expect the mixture condition will be considerably different for the same mixture and programmed setting.  The EC2 is sending the same pulse width to both sets of injectors.  Therefore, if one set has a higher flow rate than the other, then the actual fuel injected will be higher for the same pulse width signal.

 

 

Put the primary and secondary wiring back to normal, but left the replacement primary plugs installed:

I can still make either set of injectors run the engine alone, but turning on the secondaries, when at 12” MAP makes the mixture go crazy, and I can’t seem to find a mixture setting that is smooth.  I can’t see why turning the secondary injectors off and on makes any difference at this power setting, since they aren’t supposed to be on anyway.  Tried manually setting mode 7 at 15” again, and nothing changed (as it shouldn’t).

 

You are right, turning on the secondaries shouldn't have any effect IF the system has not staged. Unless:

1. There might be a wiring problem OR

2.  Your manifold line to the EC2 is not carrying the appropriate pressure signal.  IF it were plugged, leaking or not attached, then the EC2 could see near WOT pressure signal (29.92"HG) even at idle rpm and the secondaries WOULD stage (regardless of rpm) and provide too much fuel at lower rpm.

 

To make matter even more confusing, at some point, I noticed that turning off and on the secondaries at very low power stopped making a difference in the mixture.  This is how you would expect it to work, but it sure isn’t how it was working a few minutes earlier!!! 

 

 

 

I share your frustration, Rusty.  Some of my early injector problems 'bout drove me crazy - maybe did.  In any case, here is my take on things.

 

1.  First, make certain you know which injectors you have (flow rate and impedance), otherwise your just guessing at what the problem is.

.

2.  Second, I am fairly certain that Tracy's default MAP is set for the 460 cc/min stock Mazda Injectors.  With these injectors the idle/low rpm is on the milely rich side, the intermeditate about right, and the high rpm perhaps a bit lean.

 

IF you use a 550 cc/m (or higher) in the primaries then the idle will be considerably too rich, the intermediate rpm a bit on the rich side and the high rpm probably close to being on the money.  Once the engine is at higher rpm >4500, the engine will run  farily smoothly with a considerable excess of fuel that would cause rough running at lower rpms.

 

3.  IF I did not know your background, I would suspect that perhaps you could have a wiring problem in that the primaries and "cold start" mode might be both on.  That would cause way too much fuel for low rpm, but might run (rough) at high rpm.  That might explain why it would run on secondaries smoothly but not on primaries.  Also, IF the "cold start" mode was on then you would have to turn down the mixture (Waaayyy down) and program it leaner to get it to run on the primaries. Turning off the primaries might also turn off the cold start mode (if in the unlikely case it was miswired).   Probably not the case, but might want to check for certain.

 

 4.  Have you put a manifold gauge on the vaccum lines running from your manifold to your EC2 and confirmed you are getting the appropriate pressure? 

 

Hope some of this may help

 

Best Regards

 

Ed Anderson

 

 

 

 

Subscribe (FEED) Subscribe (DIGEST) Subscribe (INDEX) Unsubscribe Mail to Listmaster