Morning Gary, I guess my main concern
was simply to attribute an accident from a grainy video to a finite control
input is probably not sound "cause of crash" assessment technique. There
is simply too many variables here to finitly say what caused this crash. I'm
certainly not rejecting the possibility, but I wouldn't limit it to that
possibility either. The misalignment of the a/c with it's direction of
flight is certainly interesting but does not eliminate a single engine
[right failed]/ VMCA possibility, I've seen video in the past of similar
approaches where due to camera angle it looks very missaligned but in reality is
probably much less so. I noticed the smoke did not drift so there was limited
wind on the field at least in the vertical range shown by the camera, this would
lead me to think a tailwind turn was not likely a contribution to the
crash.
Something else I'd like to mention... I did not intent to project the " I'm
so good" personna. Although I've some reasonable experiance and training, I'm
no 'mind boggling' pilot, nor would I like to project that I am [if
that was the case, ie; interpereted from my prior comments]. In the end we're
all human and we can get into senarios where we never thought we'd get.. seeing
them for what they are becoming is the name of the game in accident avoidance
but it doesn't always stop us from getting there, I've scared the crap out of
myself a couple times and was just lucky enough to live through and learn from
it.
Btw, I'm w/ you on the rounded base/final turn, it makes for a smoother
approach/landing and I find one can spot the possible overshoot much
earlier [and adjust] in the larger turn vs a short/tight turn to
final.
Best Regards
Jarrett Johnson
235/320-- 55% [and holding]
On Sun, 13 May 2012 18:51:25 -0400, Gary
Casey <casey.gary@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm not sure, but I tend to believe the original explanation of a
cross-controlled stall. However, the part of the explanation that
speculates that he is going "too fast" doesn't go with the stall theory.
Could it have been an engine failure/Vmc stall? I suppose, but looking at
the plane visibly going sideways while pointing right at the camera leads me to
believe the cross-control theory. Regardless, it doesn't make sense to me
to reject a likely explanation just because it could be something else.
And anyway, over the years I've found myself rounding the base leg into a
continuous turn as a preventive measure against inadvertently tightening the
turn to final. At least in my case, to say "I'll never do that because I'm
so good" would be purely delusional.
Safe flying,
Gary Casey
From Jarrett
Alan I'm curious how you can tell so much from this video? It is certainly
a possible explanation but so is a Vmca excursion? Or possible a stall due to
aileron application only. I find it curious that he applied any rudder at that
point in his flight or how you see this in the video?I've read elsewhere that
this particular event occurred on a Maint flight after some serious work on the
plane (possibly there was a loss of power on one engine during the
flight).
I fly (corporately) a VERY similar a/c and I've NEVER 'horsed' it around
with rudder with the exception of simulated single engine overshoot training,
the abrupt movement felt in the planes rear seats is would be very uncomfortable
due to the yaw.
I agree that cross controlling would not be a good thing while flying in
this stage of flight but I see no way to chalk this crash in the video up to
this application of controls.
Fwiw
Jarrett Johnson
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