Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #54167
From: <vtailjeff@aol.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:17:25 -0500
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
 
sorry, but you aren't going to convince me that the numbers for one year show that LOBO members are any safer than non-LOBO members
my original quote was: "Interesting fact: 9 serious (four fatal with 7 fatalities) Lancair accidents last year. This is down from 20 accidents (12 fatal with 21 fatalities) in 2008. Not a single serious accident in 2009 involved a LOBO member. This parallels COPA's membership accident statistics as well. Keep it up!"
 
If you are not convinced see www.ntsb.gov for yourself. Facts are facts. Here is a link to last year's accidents:   http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp

Not a single one involved a LOBO member. Fact.
 
Fact: LOBO members last year had no serious accidents viz Lancair pilots as a whole--this is no criticism of Lancair pilots---just a statement of fact. ["I don't believe it....how many hours does?....yada yada yada"-- if you don't believe me then then do your own analysis and prove me wrong! Otherwise shut the f___ up.]
 
Fact: COPA pilots have a much lower accident rate than non COPA members. For more information see COPA's Nov/ Dec 09 issue page 23. With over 6000 Cirri sold COPA members account for 40% of the owners yet only 20% of the accidents. hmmmm....
Opinion: Type club members generally have lower accident rates than non members.
 
Question: why? so far everyone wants to attack the messenger or the facts but has not yet answered the important question...."why?"
 
My hypothesis is that type club members also avail themselves of additional training--beyond the minimums, seek out and pay attention to the advice of experts, try to abide by prudent and safe operating procedures and more. A parallel arguemnt could be made for why peopel who go to the gym regularly are more physically fit.. because they work at it!
 
I noticed this same phenomena when I taught with the American Bonanza Society. 
 
So for those thin skinned Lancair pilots who think I insulted them with the facts then I will try to change the facts next year!
 
For those who don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion see Webster's.
 
Best Regrads,
 
Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: Kailani <freyas.favored@gmail.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Sun, Jan 10, 2010 5:19 am
Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids

How many Lancairs are flying?
How many of those Lancairs are owned by LOBO members?
How many of the "non-members" have been flying for more than a year? (the amount of time LOBO has been in existence)
 
sorry, but you aren't going to convince me that the numbers for one year show that LOBO members are any safer than non-LOBO members.  I have no issue with LOBO but I think that's a pretty strong statement to make with very little to base it on.  I also think the underhanded slap to members of this board who are not members of LOBO is a pretty craptastic way to get new ones. 


On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 4:27 PM, <vtailjeff@aol.com> wrote:
not statisically likely



-----Original Message-----
From: freyas.favored@gmail.com
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 2:42 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids

Or could it be that more people who fly aren't members of LOBO so the odds are with you.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:09:12 -0500
Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids

Matt,
 
The important part is NO LOBO accidents in 2009. Pretty significant when not a single LOBO member joins the NTSB club in 2009 -- a better question would be why are LOBO members "safer" than the general Lancair community? You probably only have to look at the recent LML discussions to answer that question for yourself.
 
Best Regards,
 
Jeff Edwards



-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Reeves <mattreeves@yahoo.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Wed, Jan 6, 2010 3:15 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids

Not to be negative but how many Lancairs flew in 2009 compared to 2008?  Or any airplane for that matter?  Just a few years ago, I'd see and hear planes fly all the time.  Now, I'm lucky to hear one a month and never see them.  Sadly, GA is dying.  In Rochester, it's $80 to land a small plane - $40 ramp fee plus $40 landing fee.   Less planes fly, less planes crash but I'm not sure that should be interpreted as an improvement.

--- On Wed, 1/6/10, vtailjeff@aol.com <vtailjeff@aol.com> wrote:

From: vtailjeff@aol.com <vtailjeff@aol.com>
Subject: [LML] Re: 2009 Lancair Accidents factoids
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 6:16 AM


Interesting fact: 9 serious (four fatal with 7 fatalities) Lancair accidents last year. This is down from 20 accidents (12 fatal with 21 fatalities) in 2008. Not a single serious accident in 2009 involved a LOBO member. This parallels COPA's membership accident statistics as well. Keep it up!
 
Jeff Edwards
President, LOBO


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Mitchell <rmitch1@hughes.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2010 10:19 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning

Some random experiences in Fuel (mis)management.
 
Gotcha #1.  Left Madison, Wisc, minetes ahead of a rapid moving cold front in a C-180 ambhibian.  Full tanks, checked cover on old style fuel tank - appeared on (the wing is 12+ feet in the air) so didn't crawel the ladder!  On way to Midway airport, swithched tanks over what is now Tri-State expressway.  Tank # 2 empty because cap loose under the old style cover.  Landed without incident on the Tri-state (prior to concrete being laid.)
 
Gotcha #2.  In a T-6.  Three hours Fuel in two tanks, switching tanks every 1/2 hour.  Made fuel selector swith twice without problem, on third switch attempt the selector handle broke off.  Now unable to fly on fuller tank, so diverted to alternate airport and landed.  No passenger in back seat as there is a second selector there.  Henceforth carried a vicegrip as do about 1/3 of the knowledgeable T-6 pilots.
 
Gotcha #3.  In a twin comanche with tip tanks.  Heated hangar in N. Wisc.  Drained during preflight a small amount of fuel from the twins peculiar low point central drain.  Left for Florida, with full mains, full aux and full tips. My proceedure is to taxi out on the mains, switch to aux for run up then back to mains for take off.  Uneventfull cruise at 8500'.  Full aux and tips showing on the gauges. At cruise I swith to left Aux tank, engine quites, back to main everything ok.  Same with rt engine.  Analysis frozen water in both aux tanks.  After landing and over night in heated hanger drain over a gallon of water from sump.  A/c always hangared!
 
Gotcha#4. I was checking out a CFI in a tailwheel Aeronca Champ, 85hp it had a fuel system not unlike a Lnc-2. Header tank, 2 wing tanks that gravity feed to the header.  The CFI "student" checks the fuel.  " half full header, half full wing aux tanks".  We were only going to do touch and goes in Sedona, AZ.  After 2-3 landings we turned on the aux which drains into the mains so as to continue circuits and the 4th landing was "dead stick". 
 
Moral of the story(s), is that; when possible I fly on the top half of the tanks and enjoy the luxury of capacitance gauges, fuel flow/totalizers and hopefully no more GOTCHA'S.
 
Bob Mitchell
L320
 


Subject: [LML] Re: Fuel Planning

I rely heavily on the fuel totalizer in the Velocity.  On refueling, it is invariably accurate to within a gallon on a 30-70 gallon burn, but there is one scenario where reliance on the totalizer can leave you in the lurch, and a bad one at that.  If a leak develops upstream of the fuel totalizer sensor, or you leave a fuel cap off, you can be draining or vacuuming a large fraction of your fuel overboard, but the fuel totalizer does not recognize this loss, nor will you, if you rely only on the totalizer. 
 
Accordingly, we need a means of sensing, or directing reading of, the fuel left in the tank(s) to know that we haven't had an unexpected loss and that we can rely on the fuel totalizer.

Chuck Jensen
 


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