Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #3131
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Whats good for Racing is necessarily good for aircraft was Re: Intake questions
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:53:56 -0400
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Message
 
-----  Greetings,
 
Hi, Rusty.....I purchased the short intake manifold from Dave Atkins. He claims he has more than adequate power with his, and that idle is also good.  Look at all the race cars and racing motorcycles that have the carbs or throttle bodies right next to the engine.  They seem to generate a lot of power that way. For what it's worth.
 
 Paul Conner
 
 
 
Paul is correct. There are any number of intake configurations that will produce adequate power for the RV-6. I am told that Dave Atkin's intake permits him to generate approx 160HP which is certainly adequate for an RV and could even provide thrilling performance in a low weight RV
 
Now, I will be the first to say, if you want to experiment or if you find for cost, configuration or convience reasons you want to try some particular intake configuration, please do so.  I've been wrong before and I am certain will be in the future - but, do it with your eyes open and understanding of what performance might reasonably be expected.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed Anderon
 
 
 
Hi, Ed.....thanks for the post and education. I guess I was kinda thinking that if Dave Atkins's RV performs that well with his short intake manifold, my aerodynamically cleaner canard should perform equally to, or hopefully better?  The primary reason I liked his intake was because it is truly "bolt on" and go.  I tried to buy the wrap-over manifold from Powersport, but their reply was...."sorry, we can't help you".  I'm sure that experimenters such as yourself, who know and understand intake systems better than I, can tweak more power out of these engines.  The latest effort I am going to attempt is a wrap-over system similar to Paul Lamar's, but with only two intake runners. The intake manifold I ordered is cast so that the four intakes go into two almost immediately, and from there I will make my aluminum tubing wrap over the top of the engine (as close as possible for cowling clearance) and then terminate with my TWM throttlebody with the built-in injectors. )(Also purchased from Dave Atkins, because it was another "bolt on").   Did I mention that I like bolt-ons?  I truly appreciate the time and effort you invest into improving these rotary installations for aircraft.  Thanks again.  Paul Conner
 
Hi Paul,  Nothing wrong with your logic nor bolt-ons.  Just having tried two manifolds with shorter and bigger tubes, I just did not find they did anything powerwise at the rpms we operate at.
 
Sounds like you have a "Racing Beat Webber" style manifold with the four into two configuration.  I think you will find your latest thinking on your intake more power productive than the former.  My study of the DIE process has convinced me that there were some reasons for Mazda to keep the primary and secondary runners seperate on their engine.  It has also convinced me that those reasons are not really germane for aircraft use.  But, like so much - it depends{:>)
 
The current induction design I am working on also has the four into two design showing you at least I put my effort where my mouth is {:>)
 
I don't recall the configuration of your engine, whether  a stock block, which style block, or whether you have had any porting done.  It all has an effect.
 
If I knew the secrets of induction magic - I would probably be inclinded to go into business with it {:>).  Heck, I don't even have a flow bench or a dyno! I have studied and   tried the "Organ Pipe", "Helmholtz Resonator" and several others - all have some merit and all tend to fall short when applied to the pulsating, changing airflow of the Internal combustin engine.  The one that I think provides answers that correlate best with realitity is the Finite-Amplitude Wave (FAW) theory.  That seems to be supported by what I am finding on software simulations of ICs.  However, it is not a simple plug and play equation like the other approaches, its an almost agonizing iterative application of the FAW theory mainly to predicticting manifold performance and then combined with other thermodynamic and combustion models for total engine performance (simulated of course).  From what I have read the correlation with these more advanced models with reality is very good and that some of the more successful racing teams are buying these expensive simulations because they enable them to quickly throw out some the bad ideas and then concentrate on the more promissing ones.  Before, it was mostly expensive cut and try with hardware.
 
Well, enough, got to get away from the computer and out to the workshop.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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