X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:10:21 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from omr-m02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.76] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6932608 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 22:16:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.76; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-mcb02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mcb02.mx.aol.com [172.26.50.174]) by omr-m02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id D9A5E70000091 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 22:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.192.53.65] (mobile-166-147-098-004.mycingular.net [166.147.98.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mcb02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 73EF73800008F for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 22:16:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Edwards Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9AF34D05-B24D-4AEF-A159-B5F06DC55591 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: BUYING A LANCAIR 4, 4P X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 21:16:15 -0500 References: In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List X-Mailer: iPad Mail (11B511) x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a32ae539a5eed0c62 X-AOL-IP: 166.147.98.4 --Apple-Mail-9AF34D05-B24D-4AEF-A159-B5F06DC55591 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The P210 is not much wider Sent from my iPad > On Jun 12, 2014, at 6:34 AM, "Ronald Stevens" wrote: >=20 > About buying a Lancair 4-p > =20 > Well, if you can find it already done, then things add up very quickly=E2=80= =A6.but if you find one that has most things you love like=E2=80=A6.now ther= e is where you can actually save time and lots of money. > =20 > I have my plane for sale (loaded) with Garmins (G3x, GTN750 etc), BRS para= chute, AM-SAFE seatbelts, 4g impact seats, Wing cuffs etc etc > =20 > Why am I selling the plane, that I really like, well=E2=80=A6my son outgre= w the plane. He is a 250 pounds, 6=E2=80=993ft, wide shouldered guy and stil= l growing (playing football and heavy weightlifting). > =20 > So you can understand my frustration selling the plane. Now I am looking i= nto a p210 Silver Eagle=E2=80=A6.just because I need the space side-by-side.= > =20 > And yes this plane is real fun, I have over 250 hours in it, and loved eve= ry flight with it. > =20 > =3D=3D Ronald > =20 > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of PET= ER WILLIAMS > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:58 AM > To: Lancair Mailing List > Subject: [LML] BUYING A LANCAIR 4, 4P > =20 > HI THERE >=20 > WHAT TO BUY AND WHAT TO LOOK FOR >=20 > --ENGINE >=20 > 1. A low time engine is not necessarily LOW TIME > many of the Lancair for sale now were built 12 or more years ago > the engine may have 150 hours on it but it has timed out for years.(C= HECK WITH CONTINENTAL) > B. does this matter? YES. these engines have flat tappets and they te= nd to spall > over time if not used regularly. even regularly can be a problem= > C how am i sure. well, i have a 4P that had an 1996 install and a 20= 00 tear down > and i have just had to have a tear down due to a damaged cam (bi= g money > D there is a 4P that i looked at in Florida with 475 hours total tim= e (sold for $175k)=20 > , now has a fresh overhaul with 45 hours more and is up for res= ale at over $300k > E there is a $5,000 AD on the starter drive that may not be done >=20 > AIRFRAME >=20 > 1. No reasonable amount of money will correct a bad airframe, have it c= hecked by one of the Lancair experts > (i suggest other than Lancair, as their love of the moment is th= e Evolution and not the 4P) >=20 > 2 Pressurization. that is afterall what makes the 4P special. will i= t achieve full 5psi?, which should give you a 3,800=20 > cabin at 17,500. a good bit of time can be spent solving pressu= rization, (not just in a Lancair) >=20 > 3. Landing gear' lots of potential for issues, Again you need a Lancai= r expert > a. nose strut check ($65.00 part that can cost $20,000 to f= ix if it fails) > b. accumulator function > c. gear movement > 4 Weight and balance should be rechecked >=20 > AVIONICS >=20 > 1 Chelton screens are an orphans and i would not suggest maintaining t= hem > ; but. the recent Garmen and Dynon systems are so inexpensive tha= t you can end up with a superior system for=20 > $10,000-12,000 range > 2 Maybe a Garmin 530 or MX 20 (200) is enough for you; it is for me a= nd i fly to VERY LOW IFR in the northeast >=20 > FLIGHT TESTING >=20 > get one of the pro's to test fly before you buy; you will know at l= east what you are up against. EVERY ONE FLIES DIFFERENTLY > my 4P when stalled rotates 110 degrees off either wing. i have not= stalled the plane, this was test pilot report >=20 > FLIGHT TRAINING >=20 > VITAL> VITAL > 11% of Lancair's flown home by NON-trained buyers crashes in some f= ashion. this includes 20,000 hour professional pilots >=20 > I have over 200 hours in type in a year and half and am beginning= to "own" the plane... beginning ! at 50 hours i felt i could fly it and at=20= > 100 hours we became friends > remember there is NO general aviation airplane that is as deman= ding as a Lancair 4.=20 >=20 > INSURANCE > =20 > A before you buy, check that you can get insurance. if you ar= e financing; hull insurance will be required > B My quote for the first year was $14,000 for 200k hull and $= 1m liability only 100k per seat and a $10,000 deductible > at the time i had 3,600 hours IFR & Multy and 2,700 hou= r twin time > C recently a 500 hour pilot bought a 4P and never flew it as h= e could not get insurance coverage. he sold the plane for $160,000 > D many owners go naked on hull and some Turbine pilots go nak= ed on Liability as well=20 > E there is only one market for Lancair insurance > F last year i had Liability only on a 4P and the cost was $3,= 200 a year; at the same time i had Liability only on a Lancair 4 and the pri= ce > was $576 a year. Same pilot; same time frame, same covera= ge. > INSURANCE COMPANIES DO NOT HAVE A GOOD HISTORY ON TH= E LANCAIR 4P >=20 > PRICES >=20 > In the last two years, i know of three 4P's that have sold in th= e $160-175K. and i believe that the prices are not firm. a 4P turbine just s= old =20 > $300,000 and the seller said that he had only one offer in two y= ears. there was a short sale of a 4P turbine that sold for $250,000 > I do not see that the bottom has been reached for prices and i d= o not believe that the pricing reflects the quality of the build. some are = good and some are bad. > you might be better off buying at or below $200k and allocating= the rest of the money to fix what ain't prefect >=20 >=20 > i may have missed some points, but this gives you a start >=20 >=20 > good luck >=20 > peter >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 --Apple-Mail-9AF34D05-B24D-4AEF-A159-B5F06DC55591 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The P210 is not much wider

Sent= from my iPad

On Jun 12, 2014, at 6:34 AM, "Ronald Stevens" &l= t;ronald@sdc.com> wrote:

About buying a Lancair 4-p

 

Well, if you can fi= nd it already done, then things add up very quickly=E2=80=A6.but if you find= one that has most things you love like=E2=80=A6.now there is where you can a= ctually save time and lots of money.

 

I have my plane for sale (loaded) with Garmi= ns (G3x, GTN750 etc), BRS parachute, AM-SAFE seatbelts, 4g impact seats, Win= g cuffs etc etc

 

Why am I selling the plane, that I really like, well=E2=80=A6my s= on outgrew the plane. He is a 250 pounds, 6=E2=80=993ft, wide shouldered guy= and still growing (playing football and heavy weightlifting).

 

So you can underst= and my frustration selling the plane. Now I am looking into a p210 Silver Ea= gle=E2=80=A6.just because I need the space side-by-side.

 <= /p>

And yes this plane is re= al fun, I have over 250 hours in it, and loved every flight with it.

 

=3D=3D Ronal= d

 

<= o:p> 

HI THERE

WHAT TO BUY AND WHAT TO LOOK FOR

--ENGINE

1= . A     low time engine is not necessarily LOW TIME
  = ;   many of the Lancair for sale now were built 12 or more years a= go
     the engine may have 150 hours on it but it ha= s timed out for years.(CHECK WITH CONTINENTAL)
  =    B. does this matter? YES. these engines have flat tappets and t= hey tend to spall
          o= ver time if not used regularly. even regularly can be a problem
 &nb= sp;   C  how am i sure. well, i have a 4P that had an 1996 in= stall and a 2000 tear down
       &nbs= p;  and i have just had to have a tear down due to a damaged cam (big m= oney
     D  there is a 4P that i looked at in Fl= orida with 475 hours total time (sold for $175k)
    = ;      , now has a fresh overhaul with 45 hours mor= e and  is up for resale at over $300k
     E &nb= sp; there is a $5,000 AD on the starter drive that may not be done

AI= RFRAME

1.    No reasonable amount of money will correct a b= ad airframe, have it checked by one of the Lancair experts
  &n= bsp;       (i suggest other than Lancair, as t= heir love of the moment is the Evolution and not the 4P)

2  = ;      Pressurization. that is afterall what makes the 4P spe= cial. will it achieve full 5psi?, which should give you a 3,800
 &n= bsp;         cabin at 17,500. a good= bit of time can be spent solving pressurization, (not just in a Lancair)
3.     Landing gear' lots of potential for issues, A= gain you need a Lancair expert
       =         a. nose strut check ($65.00 part t= hat can cost $20,000 to fix if it fails)
     &n= bsp;          b. accumulator fu= nction
           =      c. gear movement
4      Weig= ht and balance should be rechecked

AVIONICS

1   = ;  Chelton screens are an orphans and i would not suggest maintaining t= hem
         ; but. the recent Ga= rmen and Dynon systems are so inexpensive that you can end up with a superio= r system for
          $10,= 000-12,000 range
2      Maybe a Garmin 530 or MX= 20 (200) is enough for you; it is for me and i fly to VERY LOW IFR in the n= ortheast

FLIGHT TESTING

      &n= bsp; get one of the pro's to test fly before you buy; you will know at least= what you are up against. EVERY ONE FLIES DIFFERENTLY
   &= nbsp;    my 4P when stalled rotates 110 degrees off either wi= ng. i have not stalled the plane, this was test pilot report

FLIGHT T= RAINING

        VITAL> VITAL        11% of Lancair's flown home by N= ON-trained buyers crashes in some fashion. this includes 20,000 hour profess= ional pilots

         I have o= ver 200 hours in type in a year and half and am beginning to "own" the plane= ... beginning ! at 50 hours i felt i co= uld fly it and at
         100 h= ours we became friends
        &n= bsp; remember there is NO general aviation airplane that  is as demandi= ng as a Lancair 4.

INSURANCE
 
    &n= bsp;     A    before you buy, check that y= ou can get insurance. if you are financing; hull insurance will be required<= br>          B    My q= uote for the first year was $14,000 for 200k hull and $1m liability only 100= k per seat and a $10,000 deductible
      &= nbsp;            at t= he time i had 3,600 hours IFR & Multy and 2,700 hour twin time
 =          C    recently a 5= 00 hour pilot bought a 4P and never flew it as he could not get insurance co= verage. he sold the plane for $160,000
     &nbs= p;    D    many owners go naked on hull and so= me Turbine pilots go naked on Liability as well <= br>          E  &nb= sp; there is only one market for Lancair insurance
   &nbs= p;      F    last year i had Liabili= ty only on a 4P and the cost was $3,200 a year; at the same time i had Liabi= lity only on a Lancair 4 and the price
     &nbs= p;           was $576 a ye= ar. Same pilot; same time frame, same coverage.
      &nbs= p;              INSURANCE COMPANIES = DO NOT HAVE A GOOD HISTORY ON THE LANCAIR 4P

PRICES

 &nb= sp;        In the last two years, i know o= f three 4P's that have sold in the $160-175K. and i believe that the prices a= re not firm.  a 4P turbine just sold 
    =       $300,000 and the seller said that he had only= one offer in two years. there was a short sale of a 4P turbine that sold fo= r $250,000
           I= do not see that the bottom has been reached for prices and i do not believe= that the pricing reflects the quality of the build. some  are  go= od and some are bad.
        &nbs= p;  you might be better off buying at or below $200k and allocating the= rest of the money to fix what ain't prefect


i may have missed so= me points, but this gives you a start


good luck

peter
<= br>

 

= --Apple-Mail-9AF34D05-B24D-4AEF-A159-B5F06DC55591--