X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 07:57:45 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from COL004-OMC3S4.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.142] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6929219 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:47:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.34.142; envelope-from=peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Received: from COL129-W23 ([65.55.34.135]) by COL004-OMC3S4.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22701); Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:46:58 -0700 X-TMN: [9afQsJBZ3V/LOotEeGBlWCa8RY6XLizR] X-Originating-Email: [peterpawaviation@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_6544a52d-d16b-4346-a380-68a3bd5377c3_" From: PETER WILLIAMS X-Original-To: "lml@lancaironline.net" Subject: BUYING A LANCAIR 4, 4P X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:46:58 -0400 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2014 02:46:58.0417 (UTC) FILETIME=[69E59E10:01CF851F] --_6544a52d-d16b-4346-a380-68a3bd5377c3_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI THERE WHAT TO BUY AND WHAT TO LOOK FOR --ENGINE 1. A low time engine is not necessarily LOW TIME many of the Lancair for sale now were built 12 or more years ago the engine may have 150 hours on it but it has timed out for years.(CH= ECK WITH CONTINENTAL) B. does this matter? YES. these engines have flat tappets and they ten= d to spall over time if not used regularly. even regularly can be a problem C how am i sure. well=2C i have a 4P that had an 1996 install and a 2= 000 tear down and i have just had to have a tear down due to a damaged cam (big= money D there is a 4P that i looked at in Florida with 475 hours total time= (sold for $175k)=20 =2C now has a fresh overhaul with 45 hours more and is up for re= sale at over $300k E there is a $5=2C000 AD on the starter drive that may not be done AIRFRAME 1. No reasonable amount of money will correct a bad airframe=2C have it = checked by one of the Lancair experts (i suggest other than Lancair=2C as their love of the moment is t= he Evolution and not the 4P) 2 Pressurization. that is afterall what makes the 4P special. will i= t achieve full 5psi?=2C which should give you a 3=2C800=20 cabin at 17=2C500. a good bit of time can be spent solving press= urization=2C (not just in a Lancair) 3. Landing gear' lots of potential for issues=2C Again you need a Lanca= ir expert a. nose strut check ($65.00 part that can cost $20=2C000 to = fix if it fails) b. accumulator function c. gear movement 4 Weight and balance should be rechecked AVIONICS 1 Chelton screens are an orphans and i would not suggest maintaining th= em =3B but. the recent Garmen and Dynon systems are so inexpensive th= at you can end up with a superior system for=20 $10=2C000-12=2C000 range 2 Maybe a Garmin 530 or MX 20 (200) is enough for you=3B it is for me = and i fly to VERY LOW IFR in the northeast FLIGHT TESTING =0A= get one of the pro's to test fly before you buy=3B you will know at least= =0A= what you are up against. EVERY ONE FLIES DIFFERENTLY my 4P when stalled rotates 110 degrees off either wing. i have not = stalled the plane=2C this was test pilot report FLIGHT TRAINING VITAL> VITAL 11% of Lancair's flown home by NON-trained buyers crashes in some f= ashion. this includes 20=2C000 hour professional pilots I have over 200 hours in type in a year and half and am beginning = to "own" the plane... beginning ! at 50 hours i felt i could fly it and at= =20 100 hours we became friends remember there is NO general aviation airplane that is as demand= ing as a Lancair 4.=20 INSURANCE =20 A before you buy=2C check that you can get insurance. if you a= re financing=3B hull insurance will be required =0A= B My quote for the first year was $14=2C000 for 200k hull and $1m =0A= liability only 100k per seat and a $10=2C000 deductible at the time i had 3=2C600 hours IFR & Multy and 2=2C700 = hour twin time =0A= C recently a 500 hour pilot bought a 4P and never flew it as he =0A= could not get insurance coverage. he sold the plane for $160=2C000 D many owners go naked on hull and some Turbine pilots go nake= d on Liability as well=20 E there is only one market for Lancair insurance =0A= F last year i had Liability only on a 4P and the cost was $3=2C200 a = =0A= year=3B at the same time i had Liability only on a Lancair 4 and the price was $576 a year. Same pilot=3B same time frame=2C same cov= erage. INSURANCE COMPANIES DO NOT HAVE A GOOD HISTORY ON THE= LANCAIR 4P PRICES =0A= In the last two years=2C i know of three 4P's that have sold in the =0A= $160-175K. and i believe that the prices are not firm. a 4P turbine =0A= just sold =20 $300=2C000 and the seller said that he had only =0A= one offer in two years. there was a short sale of a 4P turbine that sold=0A= for $250=2C000 I do not see that the bottom has been =0A= reached for prices and i do not believe that the pricing reflects the =0A= quality of the build. some are good and some are bad. you might be better off buying at or below $200k and allocating = the rest of the money to fix what ain't prefect i may have missed some points=2C but this gives you a start good luck peter =20 = = = --_6544a52d-d16b-4346-a380-68a3bd5377c3_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI THERE
WHAT TO BUY AND WHAT TO LOOK FOR

--ENGINE

1. A  =3B &nbs= p=3B low time engine is not necessarily LOW TIME
 =3B =3B = =3B =3B many of the Lancair for sale now were built 12 or more years ag= o
 =3B =3B =3B =3B the engine may have 150 hours on it b= ut it has timed out for years.(CHECK WITH CONTINENTAL)
&nb= sp=3B =3B =3B =3B B. does this matter? YES. these engines have = flat tappets and they tend to spall
 =3B =3B =3B =3B&nbs= p=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B over time if not used regularly. even = regularly can be a problem
 =3B =3B =3B =3B C =3B ho= w am i sure. well=2C i have a 4P that had an 1996 install and a 2000 tear d= own
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&nbs= p=3B and i have just had to have a tear down due to a damaged cam (big mone= y
 =3B =3B =3B =3B D =3B there is a 4P that i looked= at in Florida with 475 hours total time (sold for $175k)
 =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =2C now has a f= resh overhaul with 45 hours more and =3B is up for resale at over $300k=
 =3B =3B =3B =3B E  =3B there is a $5=2C000 AD on t= he starter drive that may not be done

AIRFRAME

1.  =3B&nb= sp=3B No reasonable amount of money will correct a bad airframe=2C have it = checked by one of the Lancair experts
 =3B =3B =3B =3B&n= bsp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B (i suggest other than Lancair=2C as = their love of the moment is the Evolution and not the 4P)

2 =3B&= nbsp=3B =3B  =3B  =3B Pressurization. that is afterall what mak= es the 4P special. will it achieve full 5psi?=2C which should give you a 3= =2C800
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B cabin at 17=2C500. a good bit of time can be spent solving= pressurization=2C (not just in a Lancair)

3. =3B =3B = =3B =3B Landing gear' lots of potential for issues=2C Again you need a = Lancair expert
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&= nbsp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B a. nose strut check= ($65.00 part that can cost $20=2C000 to fix if it fails)
 =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B =3B =3B b. accumulator function
 =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B  =3B c. gear movement
4 =3B =3B =3B&nbs= p=3B =3B Weight and balance should be rechecked

AVIONICS

= 1 =3B =3B =3B =3B Chelton screens are an orphans and i woul= d not suggest maintaining them
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&= nbsp=3B =3B =3B =3B but. the recent Garmen and Dynon systems are so= inexpensive that you can end up with a superior system for
 =3B&nb= sp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B $10=2C000-12= =2C000 range
2 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B Maybe a Garmin 53= 0 or MX 20 (200) is enough for you=3B it is for me and i fly to VERY LOW IF= R in the northeast

FLIGHT TESTING

 =3B =3B =3B&nb= sp=3B =3B =3B =3B=0A= get one of the pro's to test fly before you buy=3B you will know at least= =0A= what you are up against. EVERY ONE FLIES DIFFERENTLY
 =3B =3B&n= bsp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B my 4P when stalled rotates 110 degre= es off either wing. i have not stalled the plane=2C this was test pilot rep= ort

FLIGHT TRAINING

 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&= nbsp=3B =3B VITAL>=3B VITAL
 =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B =3B =3B 11% of Lancair's flown home by NON-trained buyers crash= es in some fashion. this includes 20=2C000 hour professional pilots

=  =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B I have ove= r 200 hours in type in a year and half and am beginning to "own" the plane.= .. beginning ! at 50 hours i felt= i could fly it and at
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B 100 hours we became friends
 =3B =3B =3B&nb= sp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B remember there is NO general = aviation airplane that =3B is as demanding as a Lancair 4.

INSU= RANCE
 =3B
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B =3B =3B A =3B =3B =3B before you buy=2C check that = you can get insurance. if you are financing=3B hull insurance will be requi= red
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&nbs= p=3B=0A= B  =3B =3B My quote for the first year was $14=2C000 for 200k hull= and $1m =0A= liability only 100k per seat and a $10=2C000 deductible
 =3B =3B=  =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&nb= sp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B at the time i had 3= =2C600 hours IFR &=3B Multy and 2=2C700 hour twin time
 =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=0A= C  =3B =3B recently a 500 hour pilot bought a 4P and never flew it= as he =0A= could not get insurance coverage. he sold the plane for $160=2C000
 = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B D = =3B =3B =3B many owners go naked on hull and some Turbine pilots go= naked on Liability as well
 =3B=  =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B E =3B&= nbsp=3B =3B there is only one market for Lancair insurance
 =3B&= nbsp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=0A= F =3B =3B =3B last year i had Liability only on a 4P and the c= ost was $3=2C200 a =0A= year=3B at the same time i had Liability only on a Lancair 4 and the price<= br> =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B was $576 a year. S= ame pilot=3B same time frame=2C same coverage.
 =3B  =3B  = =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B =3B = INSURANCE COMPANIES =3B DO NOT HAVE A GOOD HISTORY ON THE LANCAIR 4P
PRICES

 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B=0A= In the last two years=2C i know of three 4P's that have sold in the =0A= $160-175K. and i believe that the prices are not firm. =3B a 4P turbine= =0A= just sold =3B
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B =3B =3B $300=2C000 and the seller said that he had only =0A= one offer in two years. there was a short sale of a 4P turbine that sold=0A= for $250=2C000
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B =3B I do not see that the bottom has been =0A= reached for prices and i do not believe that the pricing reflects the =0A= quality of the build. some =3B are =3B good and some are bad.
&n= bsp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B you might be better off buying at or below $200k and allocating the res= t of the money to fix what ain't prefect


i may have missed some = points=2C but this gives you a start


good luck

peter
<= br>



= = =
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