X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:12:43 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from omr-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.201] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTPS id 6698612 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:23:47 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.201; envelope-from=n5276j@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mab02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mab02.mx.aol.com [172.26.249.84]) by omr-d04.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 16715700000B9 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:23:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-mld003b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mld003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.122.81]) by mtaomg-mab02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id E0AFE38000083 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:23:11 -0500 (EST) References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: looking for demo flight/instruction In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: steve X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D0E5E00D288F03_34B4_3101F_webmail-vm040.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38289-STANDARD Received: from 70.193.198.190 by webmail-vm040.sysops.aol.com (64.12.251.26) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:23:11 -0500 X-Original-Message-Id: <8D0E5E00D1F099B-34B4-CE48@webmail-vm040.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [70.193.198.190] X-Original-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:23:11 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1af95452e052df7921 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D0E5E00D288F03_34B4_3101F_webmail-vm040.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Gary, Bill is correct. I'm from LMO just north of you. I am currently in Florid= a and won't be back until April with my 360. I flew my first flight out of = Longmont along with the first 40 hours of test. The 360 has no problems cl= imbing out at that altitude and uses little runway, landing at first is a = little different, you can eat up 4,000 + in a hurry. As Bill said some trai= ning will take care of that. =20 There is another 360 at Longmont, I know he reads the LML so hopefully he'l= l contact you. There is another 320 in Loveland Fort Collins. If you can wait until Spring I'll be back. Steve Alderman N25SA 360 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Harrelson To: lml Sent: Wed, Jan 22, 2014 4:34 pm Subject: [LML] Re: looking for demo flight/instruction Hi Gary, =20 You=E2=80=99re doing the correct thing seeking help here on the LML and/or = with LOBO. Here are a few points to consider: =20 There is NO airframe difference between a Lancair 320 (LNC2) and a Lancair = 360 (also LNC2). There may be many differences between individual airframes= such as MKII tail, outback gear, forward hinge canopy, header tank, no hea= der tank, extended wingtips, etc, etc. None of these individual differences= have anything to do with the 320/360 difference. The only difference is wh= ich engine you hang on the airframe. Technically, the manufacturer (builder= ) can call his airplane a =E2=80=9CZippo ten thousand=E2=80=9D or anything = else he cares to but most stick to the Lancair 320 or 360 designations depe= nding on engine. =20 At 6=E2=80=99 5=E2=80=9D it=E2=80=99ll be tight. My brother is 6=E2=80=99 7= =E2=80=9D and fits only if he removes the seat bottom and seat back cushion= s. You=E2=80=99ll definitely want to sit in the one you=E2=80=99re consider= ing (with the canopy closed) and make your determination. You can make your= own seat cushions as thin as you like. =20 Only 180 hp? These are pretty light airframes. 180 hp is plenty, even out = of BJC (although I=E2=80=99d stick to the 11-29 runways until you=E2=80=99v= e got a fair bit of experience with this plane). Obviously, it=E2=80=99ll d= o better at sea level but given a common sense approach to runway selection= you should be fine. =20 Excellent question on commercial maneuvers and you are quite correct that y= ou=E2=80=99ll want to approach minimum control speeds with a large helping = of caution. A little too aggressive chandelle could get you your flight ins= tructor requirement for spin training (only half kidding here). The stall c= haracteristics of the 320/360 are not benign. It differs from airframe to a= irframe of course, but in general expect very little or no warning before t= he stall and be prepared for a hard break. Recovery is traditional but if n= ot performed correctly and with alacrity, a spin can (will) develop. Spin c= haracteristics of these airframes should be given a huge amount of respect = and a whole lot of AGL altitude. Full power usually required for spin recov= ery. =20 Good call on the AOA indicator. =20 After flying our 320 all over the world for the past 2,100 hours we=E2=80= =99ve just sold it to our good friend and neighbor, Glenn. Glenn is a pilot= for United and flew F14s off the boat. Even considering his extremely high= qualifications, we=E2=80=99re in about our 10th hour of checkout training = (at his insistence and mine). GET QUALIFIED TRAINING!!! These airplanes a= re not difficult to fly...but they are different. Different enough that the= y demand type specific training from a Lancair qualified instructor or chec= kout pilot. Please visit the LOBO web site: http://www.lancairowners.com/ =20 I=E2=80=99ll be surprised if you don=E2=80=99t get an offer to at least sit= in one somewhere near you.=20 =20 Best of luck in your search for a Lancair. Let us know how it=E2=80=99s pro= gressing. =20 Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 2,150 hrs N6ZQ IV 450 hrs Fredericksburg, VA =20 =20 =20 From: Gary Hayes=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 2:09 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] looking for demo flight/instruction =20 I=E2=80=99m current considering the purchase of a 1993 Lancair 360 (apparen= tly a 320 built as a 360) and have questions and concerns over flight chara= cteristic and physical fit. I=E2=80=99m 6=E2=80=995=E2=80=9D with a longer= torso than legs, so headroom is a concern. I understand each 360 may be b= uilt differently so will need to try on the one I=E2=80=99m interested in, = unless there=E2=80=99s simply =E2=80=9Cno way=E2=80=9D regardless of build. =20 I=E2=80=99m based out of KBJC, so concerned about overall performance on hi= gh DA days when fully loaded. The 360 I=E2=80=99m looking at as a IO-360-B= 1E, so putting out only 180 HP. =20 For flight characteristics, is this something safe enough to use for commer= cial pilot training? I already have my commercial license and know some of= the maneuvers get close to minimum control and I hear the 360=E2=80=99s do= n=E2=80=99t like that very much. This one, however, does have the big tail= , so perhaps that helps? First on my list of upgrades to the plane is a Ao= A indicator. =20 Anyone out there in CO that has one I can touch, feel and perhaps fly in?? =20 If I do buy this, I=E2=80=99d be looking for insurance checkout, anyone aro= und that can do that? =20 thx ----------MB_8D0E5E00D288F03_34B4_3101F_webmail-vm040.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Gary,
 
Bill is correct.   I'm from LMO just north of you. I am curr= ently in Florida and won't be back until April with my 360. I flew my first= flight out of Longmont along with the first 40 hours of test.  The 36= 0 has no problems climbing out  at that altitude and uses little runwa= y, landing at first is a little different, you can eat up 4,000 + in a hurr= y. As Bill said some training will take care of that.  
 
There is another 360 at Longmont, I know he reads the LML so hope= fully he'll contact you.  There is another  320 in &nbs= p;Loveland Fort Collins.
 
If you can wait until Spring I'll be back.
 
Steve Alderman   N25SA  360
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Harrelson <n5zq@verizon.net>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Jan 22, 2014 4:34 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: looking for demo flight/instruction

Hi Gary,
 
You=E2=80=99re doing the correct thing see= king help here=20 on the LML and/or with LOBO. Here are a few points to consider:
 
There is NO airframe difference between a = Lancair=20 320 (LNC2) and a Lancair 360 (also LNC2). There may be many differences bet= ween=20 individual airframes such as MKII tail, outback gear, forward hinge canopy,= =20 header tank, no header tank, extended wingtips, etc, etc. None of these=20 individual differences have anything to do with the 320/360 difference. The= only=20 difference is which engine you hang on the airframe. Technically, the=20 manufacturer (builder) can call his airplane a =E2=80=9CZippo ten thousand= =E2=80=9D or anything=20 else he cares to but most stick to the Lancair 320 or 360 designations depe= nding=20 on engine.
 
At 6=E2=80=99 5=E2=80=9D it=E2=80=99ll be = tight. My brother is 6=E2=80=99 7=E2=80=9D and=20 fits only if he removes the seat bottom and seat back cushions. You=E2=80= =99ll=20 definitely want to sit in the one you=E2=80=99re considering (with the cano= py closed)=20 and make your determination. You can make your own seat cushions as thin as= you=20 like.
 
Only 180 hp?  These are pretty light= =20 airframes. 180 hp is plenty, even out of BJC (although I=E2=80=99d stick to= the 11-29=20 runways until you=E2=80=99ve got a fair bit of experience with this plane).= Obviously,=20 it=E2=80=99ll do better at sea level but given a common sense approach to r= unway=20 selection you should be fine.
 
Excellent question on commercial maneuvers= and=20 you are quite correct that you=E2=80=99ll want to approach minimum control = speeds with a=20 large helping of caution. A little too aggressive chandelle could get you y= our=20 flight instructor requirement for spin training (only half kidding here). T= he=20 stall characteristics of the 320/360 are not benign. It differs from airfra= me to=20 airframe of course, but in general expect very little or no warning before = the=20 stall and be prepared for a hard break. Recovery is traditional but if not= =20 performed correctly and with alacrity, a spin can (will) develop. Spin=20 characteristics of these airframes should be given a huge amount of respect= and=20 a whole lot of AGL altitude. Full power usually required for spin=20 recovery.
 
Good call on the AOA indicator.
 
After flying our 320 all over the world fo= r the=20 past 2,100 hours we=E2=80=99ve just sold it to our good friend and neighbor= , Glenn.=20 Glenn is a pilot for United and flew F14s off the boat. Even considering hi= s=20 extremely high qualifications, we=E2=80=99re in about our 10th hour of chec= kout training=20 (at his insistence and mine).  GET QUALIFIED TRAINING!!!  These= =20 airplanes are not difficult to fly...but they are different. Different enou= gh=20 that they demand type specific training from a Lancair qualified instructor= or=20 checkout pilot. Please visit the LOBO web site:   http://www.lancairowners.com/
 
I=E2=80=99ll be surprised if you don=E2=80= =99t get an offer to at=20 least sit in one somewhere near you.
 
Best of luck in your search for a Lancair.= Let us=20 know how it=E2=80=99s progressing.
 
Bill Harrelson
N5ZQ 320 2,150 hrs
N6ZQ  IV  450 hrs
Fredericksburg, VA
 
 
 
From: Gary Hayes
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 2:09 PM
Subject: [LML] looking for demo flight/instruction
 
I=E2=80=99m current considering the purchase of a = 1993 Lancair 360=20 (apparently a 320 built as a 360) and have questions and concerns over flig= ht=20 characteristic and physical fit.  I=E2=80=99m 6=E2=80=995=E2=80=9D wit= h a longer torso than legs,=20 so headroom is a concern.  I understand each 360 may be built differen= tly=20 so will need to try on the one I=E2=80=99m interested in, unless there=E2= =80=99s simply =E2=80=9Cno way=E2=80=9D=20 regardless of build.
 
I=E2=80=99m based out of KBJC, so concerned about = overall performance=20 on high DA days when fully loaded.  The 360 I=E2=80=99m looking at as = a IO-360-B1E,=20 so putting out only 180 HP.
 
For flight characteristics, is this something safe= enough to=20 use for commercial pilot training?  I already have my commercial licen= se=20 and know some of the maneuvers get close to minimum control and I hear the = 360=E2=80=99s=20 don=E2=80=99t like that very much.  This one, however, does have the b= ig tail, so=20 perhaps that helps?  First on my list of upgrades to the plane is a Ao= A=20 indicator.
 
Anyone out there in CO that has one I can touch, f= eel and=20 perhaps fly in??
 
If I do buy this, I=E2=80=99d be looking for insur= ance checkout,=20 anyone around that can do that?
 
thx
 ----------MB_8D0E5E00D288F03_34B4_3101F_webmail-vm040.sysops.aol.com--