X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:29:16 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from p3plsmtpa07-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([173.201.192.235] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.8) with ESMTP id 6664038 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:31:24 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=173.201.192.235; envelope-from=jayph@fastairplane.net Received: from shuriken ([69.92.48.82]) by p3plsmtpa07-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id 8JWo1n0061mPo4M01JWor3; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:30:49 -0700 From: "Jay Phillips" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Advanced flight systems s-TEC GPSS interface X-Original-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:30:48 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <024601cf0656$6de768b0$49b63a10$@fastairplane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGKlyC/FaCHmDJsPluFzPeSNpqjo5r3fmXA Content-Language: en-us David Buckwalter is doing the build. Brad Simmons is doing the = installation. Jay Phillips -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Steven Bradford Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:22 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Advanced flight systems s-TEC GPSS interface Who is doing the installation work for you? Steven=20 On Dec 30, 2013, at 11:20, "Jay Phillips" = wrote: I'm having this installed in my 4P as we speak (email?). Should have it = back in a couple of weeks. Be happy to report once I have something to = report. Jay Phillips -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Todd Long Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 8:55 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Advanced flight systems s-TEC GPSS interface Does anyone have the G3X and the newest Garmin autopilot instated in a 4 = or 4P? And want to share their experience. I know a few people are = looking at maybe switching to that and would like some feed back.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 29, 2013, at 14:10, George Wehrung wrote: >=20 > We have the AFS 4500S in our ES with the TruTrak Autopilot. TruTrak = manufactures the autopilot for AFS. >=20 > I agree with the display being too busy and would also prefer a = separate HSI vs being overlaid on top of the ADI. >=20 > Our autopilot needs adjustment either in the servos or software as it = pitches and hunts in turns of greater than 10=CB=9A. Just another thing = I need to get to. I am also having trouble controlling the autopilot = through the AFS EFIS. The early installs had a two position rocker = switch where the autopilot took its input directly from a garmin GPS = (GNS430W in our case) or from the EFIS. I can only go directly from the = Garmin at this point. From talking with AFS tech support they have = tried giving me directions on how to take the switch out of the loop. = But if I can=E2=80=99t have the EFIS give direction from the autopilot = it will become just a wing leveler and altitude hold autopilot. >=20 > I am also very interested to see where the Garmin G3X goes. I would = like to have a single unit over on the right side so they can fly and = then two units having a ADI/HSI on one panel and a moving map Panels = together. This would compliment my Garmin stack (340, MX20, GNS430W, = and SL30). And when I do replace the 430 I could do that with the GTN = 650. =20 >=20 > My other complaint with the AFS is that I can not see the second = bearing pointer. I use #1 for the GPS enroute pointer and the HSI but I = can=E2=80=99t see the bearing that my SL30 is locked onto. >=20 > Ok, that=E2=80=99s my rant for now. >=20 > George >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Dec 29, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Todd Long wrote: >>=20 >> Do you already have an afs EFIS? I currently have the 3500S. It = interfaces with the AFS Pilot to control everything. It does have ALT = preselect.=20 >> I think the user interface is way better with the 5000 series. In my = 3500 there is way too much button pushing to just change heading and = altitude. The 5000 has pretty much dedicated knobs for each altitude and = heading select. So I'm sure that makes it way nicer to use. The 5000 so = makes entering crossing point altitudes easy. >>=20 >> The altitude and pitch has given me no trouble. So far it works well = and holds altitude nicely even in in light to moderate summer bumps. The = lateral is another story. It tends to hunt until it finally gets its = self dialed in. I think the servo they recommended doesn't have enough = torque. If I was to do a new install I would use the recommended pitch = servo and the high torque on roll. Also when disturbed in roll by = turbulence in starts oscillating. A kind of tick tock motion. Doesn't = get worse but doesn't get better. If I grab the stick and hold it steady = for a second it stops. No idea why it does that but I have heard I'm not = the only one with this problem. So far I have not been able to come up = with a combination of settings in the autopilot and EFIS to correct the = problem.=20 >>=20 >> Install was fairly straight forward. Took 2 days.=20 >> Half of it was disassembling the panel and interior. The stec servos = will not work. And a few new wires will need to be run. The afs takes 9? = for pitch I think.=20 >>=20 >> I really dislike the 3500 interface so far as usability. And the HSI = overlayed on the ADI annoys me. Too much clutter in one space. I have = considered upgrading to the 5000 series for a bigger screen and all the = extra knobs and buttons. But to be honest I want to see what Garmin does = with the G3X next. Maybe a bigger or touch screen? If so I'd pull all = the AFS stuff out and go all Garmin autopilot included. The Garmin = autopilot servos have more torque than the AFS does except for the high = torque. Plus Garmin isn't going anywhere soon or being bought out. And = if you have any problems with compatibility it's most likely a one stop = shop for tech support. Because what else would you install but Garmin = GPS and radios.=20 >> Garmin does charge more for data updates. But over all in total = costs, flying and insuring a 4P isn't cheap to start.=20 >>=20 >> Playing with both the Garmin and AFS at Oshkosh this summer I'm sold = on Garmin. But since my system is workable now I'm going to wait to see = what comes out next. My wishes really only include a bigger screen and = maybe touch screen. Garmin has the screen technology in their portables = at that size and is going touch on about everything else.=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>> On Dec 28, 2013, at 10:38, Douglas Johnson = wrote: >>>=20 >>> How do you like the afs autopilot? Does it have altitude preselect = and hold? Good lateral and vertical precision? Did you have to switch = out all your stec servos and wiring? >>>=20 >>> Douglas Johnson MD >>> Sent from my iPad >>>=20 >>>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Todd Long wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> I screwed around for a year with an stec 55x and the afs. Don't = waste your time. You will have headaches and be disappointed. Rob will = even tell you the stec works with limited functionality and only has had = a few partial successes. It's not a sales ploy. Stec tech support tried = to help but have almost zero knowledge of afs equipment. Also the = interface for operation will be a pain. I ended up putting in the afs = pilot and should have from the start. Took about 2 days to install.=20 >>>> I had the stec in the plane when I bought it. And tried to make it = work with the afs. FAIL.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>=20 >>>>> On Dec 26, 2013, at 16:23, Tom wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Folks=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> I am interested in hearing from anyone with experience interfacing = an advanced flight systems efis with an Stec autopilot using the st901 = GPSS module. I would like to upgrade my panel incrementally and keep = the basic autopilot in place. I believe I could still operate coupled = approaches with little or no change to my existing wiring but where = things get a little fuzzy is around the heading guidance selection from = the efis source. The af5000 has an Stec selection for auto pilot type. = I am not certain if it is providing the right ARINC tags to the GPSS. Ie = ground speed and commanded roll rate. Again I would love to hear from = anybody having experience with this arrangement >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks >>>>>=20 >>>>> Tom >>>>> -- >>>>> For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >>>=20 >>> -- >>> For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >>=20 >> -- >> For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html