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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 10:54:59 -0500
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From: Todd Long <toddlong1@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Advanced flight systems s-TEC GPSS interface
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In-Reply-To: <list-6661617@logan.com>

Does anyone have the G3X and the newest Garmin autopilot instated in a 4 or 4=
P? And want to share their experience. I know a few people are looking at ma=
ybe switching to that and would like some feed back.=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2013, at 14:10, George Wehrung <gw5@me.com> wrote:
>=20
> We have the AFS 4500S in our ES with the TruTrak Autopilot.  TruTrak manuf=
actures the autopilot for AFS.
>=20
> I agree with the display being too busy and would also prefer a separate H=
SI vs being overlaid on top of the ADI.
>=20
> Our autopilot needs adjustment either in the servos or software as it pitc=
hes and hunts in turns of greater than 10=CB=9A.  Just another thing I need t=
o get to.  I am also having trouble controlling the autopilot through the AFS=
 EFIS.  The early installs had a two position rocker switch where the autopi=
lot took its input directly from a garmin GPS (GNS430W in our case) or from t=
he EFIS.  I can only go directly from the Garmin at this point.  =46rom talk=
ing with AFS tech support they have tried giving me directions on how to tak=
e the switch out of the loop.  But if I can=E2=80=99t have the EFIS give dir=
ection from the autopilot it will become just a wing leveler and altitude ho=
ld autopilot.
>=20
> I am also very interested to see where the Garmin G3X goes.  I would like t=
o have a single unit over on the right side so they can fly and then two uni=
ts having a ADI/HSI on one panel and a moving map Panels together.  This wou=
ld compliment my Garmin stack (340, MX20, GNS430W, and SL30).  And when I do=
 replace the 430 I could do that with the GTN 650. =20
>=20
> My other complaint with the AFS is that I can not see the second bearing p=
ointer.  I use #1 for the GPS enroute pointer and the HSI but I can=E2=80=99=
t see the bearing that my SL30 is locked onto.
>=20
> Ok, that=E2=80=99s my rant for now.
>=20
> George
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Todd Long <toddlong1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Do you already have an afs EFIS?  I currently have the 3500S. It interfac=
es with the AFS Pilot to control everything. It does have ALT preselect.=20
>> I think the user interface is way better with the 5000 series. In my 3500=
 there is way too much button pushing to just change heading and altitude. T=
he 5000 has pretty much dedicated knobs for each altitude and heading select=
. So I'm sure that makes it way nicer to use. The 5000 so makes entering cro=
ssing point altitudes easy.
>>=20
>> The altitude and pitch has given me no trouble. So far it works well and h=
olds altitude nicely even in in light to moderate summer bumps. The lateral i=
s another story. It tends to hunt until it finally gets its self dialed in. I=
 think the servo they recommended doesn't have enough torque. If I was to do=
 a new install I would use the recommended pitch servo and the high torque o=
n roll. Also when disturbed in roll by turbulence in starts oscillating. A k=
ind of tick tock motion. Doesn't get worse but doesn't get better. If I grab=
 the stick and hold it steady for a second it stops. No idea why it does tha=
t but I have heard I'm not the only one with this problem. So far I have not=
 been able to come up with a combination of settings in the autopilot and EFI=
S to correct the problem.=20
>>=20
>> Install was fairly straight forward. Took 2 days.=20
>> Half of it was disassembling the panel and interior. The stec servos will=
 not work. And a few new wires will need to be run. The afs takes 9? for pit=
ch I think.=20
>>=20
>> I really dislike the 3500 interface so far as usability. And the HSI over=
layed on the ADI annoys me. Too much clutter in one space. I have considered=
 upgrading to the 5000 series for a bigger screen and all the extra knobs an=
d buttons. But to be honest I want to see what Garmin does with the G3X next=
. Maybe a bigger or touch screen? If so I'd pull all the AFS stuff out and g=
o all Garmin autopilot included. The Garmin autopilot servos have more torqu=
e than the AFS does except for the high torque. Plus Garmin isn't going anyw=
here soon or being bought out. And if you have any problems with compatibili=
ty it's most likely a one stop shop for tech support. Because what else woul=
d you install but Garmin GPS and radios.=20
>> Garmin does charge more for data updates. But over all in total costs, fl=
ying and insuring a 4P isn't cheap to start.=20
>>=20
>> Playing with both the Garmin and AFS at Oshkosh this summer I'm sold on G=
armin. But since my system is workable now I'm going to wait to see what com=
es out next. My wishes really only include a bigger screen and maybe touch s=
creen. Garmin has the screen technology in their portables at that size and i=
s going touch on about everything else.=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On Dec 28, 2013, at 10:38, Douglas Johnson <lancair1@bellsouth.net> wrot=
e:
>>>=20
>>> How do you like the afs autopilot? Does it have altitude preselect and h=
old? Good lateral and vertical precision? Did you have to switch out all you=
r stec servos and wiring?
>>>=20
>>> Douglas Johnson MD
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>=20
>>>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Todd Long <toddlong1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> I screwed around for a year with an stec 55x and the afs. Don't waste y=
our time. You will have headaches and be disappointed. Rob will even tell yo=
u the stec works with limited functionality and only has had a few partial s=
uccesses. It's not a sales ploy. Stec tech support tried to help but have al=
most zero knowledge of afs equipment.  Also the interface for operation will=
 be a pain. I ended up putting in the afs pilot and should have from the sta=
rt. Took about 2 days to install.=20
>>>> I had the stec in the plane when I bought it. And tried to make it work=
 with the afs. FAIL.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Dec 26, 2013, at 16:23, Tom <n20087@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Folks=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I am interested in hearing from anyone with experience interfacing an a=
dvanced flight systems efis with an Stec autopilot using the st901 GPSS modu=
le.  I would like to upgrade my panel incrementally and keep the basic autop=
ilot in place.  I believe I could still operate coupled approaches with litt=
le or no change to my existing wiring but where things get a little fuzzy is=
 around the heading guidance selection from the efis source.  The af5000 has=
 an Stec selection for auto pilot type.  I am not certain if it is providing=
 the right ARINC tags to the GPSS. Ie ground speed and commanded roll rate. =
 Again I would love to hear from anybody having experience with this arrange=
ment
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Tom
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>=20
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