X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:41:32 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm20-vm5.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.242] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6632886 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 06:44:54 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.242; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.226.176] by nm20.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2013 11:44:18 -0000 Received: from [98.138.101.180] by tm11.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2013 11:44:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1091.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2013 11:44:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 912764.6841.bm@omp1091.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 78674 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Dec 2013 11:44:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=FlyfHJfy63lAsJXPOssODS36VunzEfCpN1ysyaTQuCY00OXTN4UaSq3v/d7j++lK1L3NaIpPOaO5CTN3RdfaS9TNQxpM1I2HXN70Ies/xkkAY36tr433FvJ2JfLgKqAvOjL45//MEGKxpP4ki6VlZCME+ELLujNAp2PL83cvI+s=; X-YMail-OSG: MqPhYQsVM1nFHEW7SXmG4Bc2g.d1_9sif9BKgYA71Ypc4gv Tsb6TOlHhj8cK4bqP9sknqy9hwnhSuxxIAk2XSjam8GhPfj_6ESzIASzFOsn ..JzqOyV43O4wsXcZYE4WNQ6wz6wa6U9pMIxkiy8dZLpp4eASsW_i52k74z8 jmQFo_vUdpzqMFbR3OWmQU.ZK55pS.LkBJbT17nJYrEOvcWkLBTU_YFu048I IBrApEnNKYafRWpllNpNwGLOh.2hF8Q5i6O4hJNNA_Wg155IOBeZ7xRP4h6p 7V.cy3oxcWv.BA9AxJAcU9imYKdF_zzSPG7DxpRkN7KqZymTPpjG1Dyk1882 D48qjjyT21.gpckObqK27621www.UIhBQAwhdyExISF0AAwDvdR0.Pjd1RN0 xtGq0itt0qMdjgU1xSb_nv7p971Vlo8R8Bu1W3liWB9dLgURIhqN1qRmDZgv VwIpQ2JWfI7AzbisiUxf1FKbpJ6.cevWJzagyMabsAl.vPrO_f_mMk4xu7jr 5O9mKChlAdyybWJLPG0jYP4VAUGX_6aHQaOhCyFljk9EM3d5vyvK2w48XFyu pHyT2.9Qki9n5WDqhSjANF9A- Received: from [97.92.63.83] by web120104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 03:44:18 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,QW5naWVyLApUbyBnZXQgdG8geW91ciBvcmlnaW5hbCBxdWVzdGlvbiwgwqB5ZXMgdGhlIHN0YXJ0ZXIgY2FuIGZhZGUgYXdheSB3aXRoIHRpbWUuIMKgQSBudW1iZXIgb2YgdGhpbmdzIGNhbiBkZXRlcmlvcmF0ZS4gwqBJZiBpdCBpcyBhIHBlcm1hbmVudC1tYWduZXQgbW90b3IgKEkgdGhpbmsgaXQgaXMsIGJ1dCBub3Qgc3VyZSkgVGhlIG1hZ25ldHMgY2FuIGJlY29tZSB3ZWFrZW5lZC4gwqBUaGlzIHVzdWFsbHkgaGFwcGVucyBkdXJpbmcgYSBjb2xkIHdlYXRoZXIganVtcCBzdGFydCB3aGVuIHRoZSBib28BMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.169.609 X-Original-Message-ID: <1386675858.25790.YahooMailNeo@web120104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 03:44:18 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Casey Reply-To: Gary Casey Subject: Re: Sky-Tec starte X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1312421089-1859419351-1386675858=:25790" ---1312421089-1859419351-1386675858=:25790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Angier,=0ATo get to your original question, =A0yes the starter can fade awa= y with time. =A0A number of things can deteriorate. =A0If it is a permanent= -magnet motor (I think it is, but not sure) The magnets can become weakened= . =A0This usually happens during a cold weather jump start when the booster= applies more voltage than it should. =A0This can partially demagnetize the= magnets. =A0The brushes can have resistance that increases with usage. =A0= Adjacent turns in the windings can short to each other, reducing the output= torque while increasing the current draw. =A0But as some suggested, increa= sed resistance of the wiring is perhaps more likely. =A0The way I check tha= t (after doing a quick check of all the connections) is to run a lead from = the starter terminal and one from the battery positive lead to a voltmeter.= =A0While cranking the voltage drop should be low - maybe 1 volt or less. = =A0Then run a lead from the motor housing (starter motor, not engine) and f= rom the battery negative lead. =A0The same result is hoped for. =A0If the voltage drop is = up in the 3 volt range you have to find the source and one way to do that i= s to repeat the test with the voltmeter across various portions of the syst= em. =A0But you likely won't find a singular loose connection - any loose co= nnection absorbs a LOT of power during the event and will likely open up so= on - it won't stay like that for a long time. =A0Hope this helps.=0AGary Ca= sey=0A=0AMy Lycoming IO360 180hp was delivered with a Sky-Tec starter and I= 'm beginn=3D=0Aing to wonder about possible failure modes. Can they slowly = lose their abil=3D=0Aity to produce torque over time? I had two Odyessey ba= tteries that were at =3D=0Aleast four years old when the engine was first s= tarted and either battery w=3D=0Aould spin the prop so fast it was a blur.= =0ASlowly over time the prop would turn over more slowly. It would not stop= on=3D=0Athe first compression stroke but would slow down significantly. Th= e batter=3D=0Aies tested OK but I replaced them all the same. I am still ex= periencing the=3D=0Asame condition so am beginning to focus on the starter.= =0A=0ASuggestions?=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0AAngier Ames=0A ---1312421089-1859419351-1386675858=:25790 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Angier,
To get to your original question, &nbs= p;yes the starter can fade away with time.  A number of things can det= eriorate.  If it is a permanent-magnet motor (I think it is, but not s= ure) The magnets can become weakened.  This usually happens during a c= old weather jump start when the booster applies more voltage than it should= .  This can partially demagnetize the magnets.  The brushes can h= ave resistance that increases with usage.  Adjacent turns in the windi= ngs can short to each other, reducing the output torque while increasing th= e current draw.  But as some suggested, increased resistance of the wi= ring is perhaps more likely.  The way I check that (after doing a quic= k check of all the connections) is to run a lead from the starter terminal and one from the battery positive lead to a voltmeter.  Whil= e cranking the voltage drop should be low - maybe 1 volt or less.  The= n run a lead from the motor housing (starter motor, not engine) and from th= e battery negative lead.  The same result is hoped for.  If the v= oltage drop is up in the 3 volt range you have to find the source and one w= ay to do that is to repeat the test with the voltmeter across various porti= ons of the system.  But you likely won't find a singular loose connect= ion - any loose connection absorbs a LOT of power during the event and will= likely open up soon - it won't stay like that for a long time.  Hope = this helps.
Gary Casey

My Lycoming IO360 180hp= was delivered with a Sky-Tec starter and I'm beginn=3D
ing to wonder about possible failure modes. Can the= y slowly lose their abil=3D
ity = to produce torque over time? I had two Odyessey batteries that were at =3D<= /span>
least four years old when the en= gine was first started and either battery w=3D
ould spin the prop so fast it was a blur.
Slowly over time the prop would turn over more slowly. It would not= stop on=3D
the first compressio= n stroke but would slow down significantly. The batter=3D
ies tested OK but I replaced them all the same.= I am still experiencing the=3D
= same condition so am beginning to focus on the starter.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Angier Ames
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