X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:31:53 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from col0-omc3-s10.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.148] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTP id 6584321 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 10 Nov 2013 22:24:17 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.34.148; envelope-from=peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Received: from COL129-W32 ([65.55.34.137]) by col0-omc3-s10.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 10 Nov 2013 19:23:44 -0800 X-TMN: [HphkLlrwaI3OxlzhI+O0G3WsudbimsRn] X-Originating-Email: [peterpawaviation@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_9f3e91f0-ac93-4adb-9105-d3d077e71866_" From: PETER WILLIAMS X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: RE: [LML] Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do? X-Original-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 22:23:44 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2013 03:23:44.0380 (UTC) FILETIME=[6D2DDBC0:01CEDE8D] --_9f3e91f0-ac93-4adb-9105-d3d077e71866_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI THERE i love the honesty and simplicity of training answer peter To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun=2C 10 Nov 2013 10:59:45 -0500 From: stevens5@swiftdsl.com.au Subject: [LML] Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do? This whole thread brings to mind what one of my training captains taught me= during my airline training. One day as we were approaching an area of what= looked like prime icing conditions=2C he turned to me and said. =93Do you = know the two rules of icing?=94 Feeling very dumb=2C I replied in the negat= ive=2C to which he responded. =93 Rule number one is =91Don=92t get in it= =92. Rule number two is =91If you are in it=2C get out of it!=92. Whilst I = appreciate that it is not always possible to comply with these rules=2C I t= hink that it makes the point very well that icing is not something to be ta= ken lightly=2C no matter what aircraft you are flying. It was only a short = time later that one of the aircraft in our fleet (a BAe 146 ) encountered s= evere icing at night near a thunderstorm=2C and suffered a 4 engine roll-ba= ck which was identified as resulting from severe ice build-up in the intak= es to the core of the engines. Fortunately it occurred over flat Australian= outback terrain=2C and in spite of descending over 20=2C000 ft=2C the ice = dissipated before the aircraft reached ground level=2C allowing engine powe= r to be restored. And this was all in a fully certified aircraft=2C not an = experimental aircraft like we fly. Be careful out there. Rob StevensPerth W= estern Australia. From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net= ] On Behalf Of Colyn Case Sent: Saturday=2C 9 November 2013 3:37 AM To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do? splitting this= thread from John's.good tape. What would you have done and when?It's a t= urbine with tons of climb power and boots and you've seen moderate ice befo= re. a) stayed below IMCb) not entered IMC until you were guaranteed a conti= nuous climb to fl200c) accept clearance as given accident pilot and then vi= olate clearance and continue climbing once icing got beyond light=2C declar= e emergency d) descend as soon as you saw icee) something else Colyn On Nov= 8=2C 2013=2C at 7:31 AM=2C PETER WILLIAMS wrote: HI THERE i came across this AOPA report on a TBM that crashed 17 minutes after takin= g off from TETERBORO i remember the news report. in many ways a TBM performance envelop is similar to our LNC4=3B admittedly= not many Lancair aircraft=20 have full de-ice equipment=2C but we could easily find ourselves in a simil= ar situation. FIVE MINUTES INTO THE ICING=2C and the plane is out of control http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?watch=3D9CC22A1C-9960-43A5-AC03-3757498B= E36C&WT.mc_sect=3Dtts&WT.mc_id=3D131108epilot it is hard to stay vigilant=2C but that is how we get to be old pilots peter = --_9f3e91f0-ac93-4adb-9105-d3d077e71866_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI THERE

i love the honesty and simplicity of = training answer

peter

To: lml@lancair= online.net
Date: Sun=2C 10 Nov 2013 10:59:45 -0500
From: stevens5@swi= ftdsl.com.au
Subject: [LML] Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do= ?

This whole thread brings to mind what = one of my training captains taught me during my airline training. One day a= s we were approaching an area of what looked like prime icing conditions=2C= he turned to me and said. =93Do you know the two rules of icing?=94 Feelin= g very dumb=2C I replied in the negative=2C to which he responded. =93 Rule= number one is =91Don=92t get in it=92. Rule number two is =91If you are in= it=2C get out of it!=92.

 =3B

Whilst I appreciate that it = is not always possible to comply with these rules=2C I think that it makes = the point very well that icing is not something to be taken lightly=2C no m= atter what aircraft you are flying. It was only a short time later that one= of the aircraft in our fleet (a BAe 146 ) encountered severe icing at nigh= t near a thunderstorm=2C and suffered a 4 engine roll-back  =3Bwhich wa= s identified as resulting from severe ice build-up in the intakes to the co= re of the engines. Fortunately it occurred over flat Australian outback ter= rain=2C and in spite of descending over 20=2C000 ft=2C the ice dissipated b= efore the aircraft reached ground level=2C allowing engine power to be rest= ored. And this was all in a fully certified aircraft=2C not an experimental= aircraft like we fly.

 =3B

Be careful out there.

<= p class=3D"ecxMsoNormal"> = =3B

Rob Stevens

Perth

Western Australia.

 =3B

 =3B

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn Case
Sent: Saturday=2C 9 November 2013 3:= 37 AM
To: Lancair Mailing List
Subject: [LML] Re: TBM C= RASH -ICING TEB - what would you do?

 =3B

splitting this thread = from John's.

good tape.  =3B What wo= uld you have done and when?

It's a turbin= e with tons of climb power and boots and you've seen moderate ice before.

 =3B

a) stayed below IMC

b)= not entered IMC until you were guaranteed a continuous climb to fl200

<= /div>

c) accept clearance as given accident p= ilot and then violate clearance and continue climbing once icing got beyond= light=2C declare emergency =3B

d) descend as soon as you saw ice

= e) something else

 =3B

Colyn

 =3B

On Nov 8=2C 2013=2C at 7= :31 AM=2C PETER WILLIAMS wrote:



=

HI THERE

i came = across this AOPA report on a TBM that crashed 17 minutes after taking off f= rom TETERBORO

i remember the news report.

in many ways a TBM = performance envelop is similar to our LNC4=3B admittedly not many Lancair a= ircraft =3B
have ful= l de-ice equipment=2C but we could easily find ourselves in a similar situa= tion.

FIVE MINUTES INTO THE ICING=2C and the plane is out of control=

http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?watch=3D9CC22A1C-99= 60-43A5-AC03-3757498BE36C&=3BWT.mc_sect=3Dtts&=3BWT.mc_id=3D131108epi= lot

it is hard to stay vigilant=2C but that is how we get to be<= span class=3D"ecxapple-converted-space"> =3Bold pilots=


peter

 =3B

= --_9f3e91f0-ac93-4adb-9105-d3d077e71866_--