X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 10:59:45 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from pt-smtp-02.commander.net.au ([218.214.227.99] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with SMTP id 6583473 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 23:42:49 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=218.214.227.99; envelope-from=stevens5@swiftdsl.com.au Received: (qmail 17806 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2013 04:42:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO StevensPC) (218.215.218.122) by pt-smtp-02.commander.net.au with SMTP; 10 Nov 2013 04:42:12 -0000 From: "Stevens Family" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do? X-Original-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 12:42:13 +0800 X-Original-Message-ID: <000001ceddcf$39909af0$acb1d0d0$@swiftdsl.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CEDE12.47B895E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIOocp+b1+ZOdyayzlfGEguTDzApZmeVYeA Content-Language: en-au This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CEDE12.47B895E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This whole thread brings to mind what one of my training captains taught me during my airline training. One day as we were approaching an area of what looked like prime icing conditions, he turned to me and said. "Do you know the two rules of icing?" Feeling very dumb, I replied in the negative, to which he responded. " Rule number one is 'Don't get in it'. Rule number two is 'If you are in it, get out of it!'. Whilst I appreciate that it is not always possible to comply with these rules, I think that it makes the point very well that icing is not something to be taken lightly, no matter what aircraft you are flying. It was only a short time later that one of the aircraft in our fleet (a BAe 146 ) encountered severe icing at night near a thunderstorm, and suffered a 4 engine roll-back which was identified as resulting from severe ice build-up in the intakes to the core of the engines. Fortunately it occurred over flat Australian outback terrain, and in spite of descending over 20,000 ft, the ice dissipated before the aircraft reached ground level, allowing engine power to be restored. And this was all in a fully certified aircraft, not an experimental aircraft like we fly. Be careful out there. Rob Stevens Perth Western Australia. From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn Case Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2013 3:37 AM To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do? splitting this thread from John's. good tape. What would you have done and when? It's a turbine with tons of climb power and boots and you've seen moderate ice before. a) stayed below IMC b) not entered IMC until you were guaranteed a continuous climb to fl200 c) accept clearance as given accident pilot and then violate clearance and continue climbing once icing got beyond light, declare emergency d) descend as soon as you saw ice e) something else Colyn On Nov 8, 2013, at 7:31 AM, PETER WILLIAMS wrote: HI THERE i came across this AOPA report on a TBM that crashed 17 minutes after taking off from TETERBORO i remember the news report. in many ways a TBM performance envelop is similar to our LNC4; admittedly not many Lancair aircraft have full de-ice equipment, but we could easily find ourselves in a similar situation. FIVE MINUTES INTO THE ICING, and the plane is out of control http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?watch=9CC22A1C-9960-43A5-AC03-3757498BE36 C &WT.mc_sect=tts&WT.mc_id=131108epilot it is hard to stay vigilant, but that is how we get to be old pilots peter ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CEDE12.47B895E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This whole thread brings to mind what one of my training captains = taught me during my airline training. One day as we were approaching an = area of what looked like prime icing conditions, he turned to me and = said. “Do you know the two rules of icing?” Feeling very = dumb, I replied in the negative, to which he responded. “ Rule = number one is ‘Don’t get in it’. Rule number two is = ‘If you are in it, get out of it!’.

 

Whilst I appreciate that it is not always possible to comply with = these rules, I think that it makes the point very well that icing is not = something to be taken lightly, no matter what aircraft you are flying. = It was only a short time later that one of the aircraft in our fleet (a = BAe 146 ) encountered severe icing at night near a thunderstorm, and = suffered a 4 engine roll-back  which was identified as resulting = from severe ice build-up in the intakes to the core of the engines. = Fortunately it occurred over flat Australian outback terrain, and in = spite of descending over 20,000 ft, the ice dissipated before the = aircraft reached ground level, allowing engine power to be restored. And = this was all in a fully certified aircraft, not an experimental aircraft = like we fly.

 

Be careful out there.

 

Rob Stevens

Perth

Western Australia.

 

 

From:= Lancair = Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Colyn = Case
Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2013 3:37 AM
To: = Lancair Mailing List
Subject: [LML] Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - = what would you do?

 

splitting this thread from = John's.

good tape.   What = would you have done and when?

It's a turbine with tons of climb power and boots and = you've seen moderate ice before.

 

a) stayed below IMC

b) not entered IMC until you were guaranteed a = continuous climb to fl200

c) accept clearance as given accident pilot and then = violate clearance and continue climbing once icing got beyond light, = declare emergency 

d) = descend as soon as you saw ice

e) something else

 

Colyn

 

On = Nov 8, 2013, at 7:31 AM, PETER WILLIAMS wrote:



HI THERE

i came = across this AOPA report on a TBM that crashed 17 minutes after taking = off from TETERBORO

i remember the news report.

in many = ways a TBM performance envelop is similar to our LNC4; admittedly not = many Lancair aircraft 
have full de-ice = equipment, but we could easily find ourselves in a similar = situation.

FIVE MINUTES INTO THE ICING, and the plane is out of = control

http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?watch=3D9CC22A1C-996= 0-43A5-AC03-3757498BE36C&WT.mc_sect=3Dtts&WT.mc_id=3D131108epilot=

it is hard to stay vigilant, but that is how we get to = be old = pilots


peter

=

 

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