X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2013 11:57:29 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from carbinge.com ([69.5.27.218] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with SMTP id 6581767 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 10:26:36 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.5.27.218; envelope-from=john@carbinge.com Received: (qmail 3759 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2013 15:26:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; h=X-Originating-IP:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language; s=default; d=carbinge.com; b=IP8QTN7zHNxsHMX32guNVzMpeQz3k3uLIPlnqHg9BFoYnZ8tXoLicpZkUFUli0uHGNjleIYVzDfv6/bcn6wqAor4qe69/hw+r5XitrI0kvKTe0JhZcaTtVF6Vo40FktsR44iPxxMu9NApA77Gfp28UQ4s7NFcZaDScQfJHUXI6E=; X-Originating-IP: [208.53.115.208] From: "John Barrett" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] TBM CRASH -ICING TEB X-Original-Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 07:25:58 -0800 X-Original-Message-ID: <029701cedc96$d44b8fd0$7ce2af70$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0298_01CEDC53.C6284FD0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac7cfoJG1reT5VlkRCq0U5i7DMkcxQAFU6Eg Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01CEDC53.C6284FD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A very sobering story and accident.=20 =20 It reminds me of an incident my wife and I encountered in our fairly = newly flying IVP on the way home a few days after LOBO in SC. We were doing = a leg from Houston, Pearland to Pueblo CO and we had initially flown NE = twds Louisiana to avoid a WX system over Houston. There was another system = over the OK Panhandle and we again diverted to the NE to go around the = leading edge of this system. I was maintaining VMC =96 in fact I think I was VFR = on top at the time. I think I was at 16,500 as I was trying to avoid the stronger headwinds higher. I encountered what I thought was a thin and relatively small area of cloud ahead and thought I was well out of the moisture laden system so I asked for IFR altitude and was given same. = As soon as I entered this cloud layer I got swatted with rime ice on the windscreen and leading edge of the wings. As someone else mentioned recently, I think IAS immediately dropped about 10 or 20 kts. =20 =20 I asked for deviation and was given, looked out and there was about =BC = to =BD=94 gnarly looking rime on the wings =96 all of it right at the apex. I = also asked for descent knowing temps were warmer below. I got out of the = cloud within a few seconds by turning right 90 degrees, but the ice was persistent. As I recall it took a descent to 13,000 and OAT of a = couple degrees above zero before the ice was shed . There had been a slight = amount of sublimation when we first exited IMC but only minimal and I was = surprised how long it took to get rid of all of it. Probably it was a couple of minutes even though it felt longer. =20 =20 There was more reason than one that I elected to descend rather than = climb but my only encounter with ice in this airplane made the choice fairly simple because I had no idea whether the airplane would successfully = climb in this configuration with full power or not. I just didn=92t want to = chance it =96 I think IAS was around 150 or 160 and I still have no idea how = the airplane would behave with any further degradation of airspeed or with increased angle of attack. =20 =20 Anyone else have information to share about this kind of situation? =20 Thanks, John Barrett =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = PETER WILLIAMS Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 4:32 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] TBM CRASH -ICING TEB =20 HI THERE i came across this AOPA report on a TBM that crashed 17 minutes after = taking off from TETERBORO i remember the news report. in many ways a TBM performance envelop is similar to our LNC4; = admittedly not many Lancair aircraft=20 have full de-ice equipment, but we could easily find ourselves in a = similar situation. FIVE MINUTES INTO THE ICING, and the plane is out of control http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?watch=3D9CC22A1C-9960-43A5-AC03-375749= 8BE36 C &WT.mc_sect=3Dtts&WT.mc_id=3D131108epilot it is hard to stay vigilant, but that is how we get to be old pilots peter _____ =20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3615/6809 - Release Date: = 11/04/13 ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01CEDC53.C6284FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A very sobering story and accident.

 

It reminds me of an incident my wife and I encountered in our fairly = newly flying IVP on the way home a few days after=A0 LOBO in SC.=A0 We = were doing a leg from Houston, Pearland to Pueblo CO and we had = initially flown NE twds Louisiana to avoid a WX system over Houston.=A0 = There was another system over the OK Panhandle and we again diverted to = the NE to go around the leading edge of this system. I was maintaining = VMC – in fact I think I was VFR on top at the time. =A0I think I = was at =A016,500 as I was trying to avoid the stronger headwinds higher. = =A0I encountered what I thought was a thin and relatively small area of = cloud ahead and thought I was well out of the moisture laden system so I = asked for IFR altitude and was given same.=A0 As soon as I entered this = cloud layer I got swatted with rime ice on the windscreen and leading = edge of the wings.=A0 As someone else mentioned recently, I think IAS = immediately dropped about 10 or 20 kts.=A0

 

I asked for deviation and was given,=A0 looked out and there was = about =BC to =BD” gnarly looking rime on the wings – all of = it right at the apex.=A0 I also asked for descent knowing temps were = warmer below.=A0 I got out of the cloud within a few seconds by turning = right 90 degrees, but the ice was persistent.=A0 =A0As I recall it took = a descent to 13,000 and OAT of =A0a couple degrees above zero before the = ice was shed .=A0 There had been a slight amount of sublimation when we = first exited IMC but only minimal and I was surprised how long it took = to get rid of all of it.=A0 Probably it was a couple of minutes even = though it felt longer.=A0

 

There was more reason than one that I elected to descend rather than = climb but my only encounter with ice in this airplane made the choice = fairly simple because I had no idea whether the airplane would = successfully climb in this configuration with full power or not.=A0 I = just didn’t want to chance it – I think IAS was around 150 = or 160 and I still have no idea how the airplane would behave with any = further degradation of airspeed or with increased angle of attack.=A0 =

 

Anyone else have information to share about this kind of = situation?

 

Thanks,
John Barrett

 

From:= = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = PETER WILLIAMS
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 4:32 = AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] TBM = CRASH -ICING TEB

 

HI THERE

i came = across this AOPA report on a TBM that crashed 17 minutes after taking = off from TETERBORO

i remember the news report.

in many = ways a TBM performance envelop is similar to our LNC4; admittedly not = many Lancair aircraft
have full de-ice equipment, but we could = easily find ourselves in a similar situation.

FIVE MINUTES INTO = THE ICING, and the plane is out of control

http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?watch=3D9CC22A1C-996= 0-43A5-AC03-3757498BE36C&WT.mc_sect=3Dtts&WT.mc_id=3D131108epilot=

it is hard to stay vigilant, but that is how we get to be = old = pilots


peter

No = virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / = Virus Database: 3615/6809 - Release Date: = 11/04/13

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