X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 16:57:38 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6577874 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:43:07 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.175; envelope-from=toddlong1@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f175.google.com with SMTP id va2so1300318obc.6 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:42:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.99.231 with SMTP id et7mr20476780obb.10.1383684154686; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:42:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [10.233.238.106] (96.sub-174-225-224.myvzw.com. [174.225.224.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qe2sm23906012obc.1.2013.11.05.12.42.32 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:42:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy Canopy Problem References: From: Todd Long Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-BC5391E2-4E45-44E7-B345-104C0ED5474D X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B511) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: <7E242D1D-6552-4DBE-970B-515F0E8DC5C7@gmail.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 14:42:00 -0600 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-BC5391E2-4E45-44E7-B345-104C0ED5474D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem with using just idiot light is we have trained ourselves to igno= re it during the taxi. It would be nice if checklists solved all problems bu= t unfortunately they don't. At some point we all become idiots. Some just ha= ppened I have this happen at a worse time than others. Highly trained method= ical airline pilot and military pilots had forgotten to put the landing gear= down before I'm pretty sure there's a checklist for that. Since checklists alone are going to solve the problem I suggest the followin= g before any elaborate mechanical engineering that might have further uninte= nded consequences. I would wire in a horn to that idiot light that sounds wh= en the throttle is pushed far enough forward for take off. A switch on the t= hrottle at 50% travel. This is a pretty common system in corporate jets and a= irliners. Call it a pre-take up configuration check. A light alone is not en= ough. I know of one incident where the door was left only on a pre-catch rat= her than latched on a citation. The crew took off and the door blew open and= flight. Fortunately they landed without incident. In the particular series t= here is an annunciator light for the door but no take off configuration chec= k horn. Unfortunately for that crew the bulbs in the annunciator happened to= be burned out. Essentially a perfect storm that could have resulted in fata= lities with the crew that follow the checklist but didn't actually complete t= he item. The callout was latched, no lights. Everyone on this message board is flying some sort of very highly advanced f= ast cross-country aircraft. Average piloting skills will not keep you safe i= n this aircraft. We need to follow flows and quality checklists. Fly all pha= ses of flight to the well thought out profiles. If you can't follow a checklist, or fly the aircraft during takeoff and land= ing to a consistent profile you probably should not be flying. Having said t= hat, I'm pretty sure that everyone on this message board is capable of doing= this. Safe flying, add a horn. Typing and grammar errors courtesy of Siri and the iPhone. > On Nov 5, 2013, at 12:12, Mike's Gmail wrote: >=20 > Jay, >=20 > So people do rolling takeoffs and add power slowly which delays the proble= m. Others just don't notice until its too late. >=20 > Mike >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 >> On Nov 5, 2013, at 10:25 AM, "Jay Phillips" wrot= e: >>=20 >> I don=92t understand how it is possible to take off with the canopy unlat= ched. I don=92t mean to express criticism, rather bewilderment. >> =20 >> I have twice failed to latch the canopy on my Legacy prior to applying fu= ll power for takeoff. Both times, as soon as full power was applied the cano= py lifted 3-4 inches. I pulled the power to idle, stopped the aircraft and s= ecured the canopy. Then kicked myself and continued on my way. >> =20 >> I know every aircraft is different. Is it that on some aircraft the canop= y fit is so tight that an unlatched canopy doesn=92t open until the airspeed= passes some threshold? In my cases the prop wash at full power was sufficie= nt to lift the canopy. >> =20 >> Jay Phillips --Apple-Mail-BC5391E2-4E45-44E7-B345-104C0ED5474D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The problem with using just idiot ligh= t is we have trained ourselves to ignore it during the taxi. It would be nic= e if checklists solved all problems but unfortunately they don't. At some po= int we all become idiots. Some just happened I have this happen at a worse t= ime than others. Highly trained methodical airline pilot and military pilots= had forgotten to put the landing gear down before I'm pretty sure there's a= checklist for that.
Since checklists alone are going to solve the= problem I suggest the following before any elaborate mechanical engineering= that might have further unintended consequences. I would wire in a horn to t= hat idiot light that sounds when the throttle is pushed far enough forward f= or take off. A switch on the throttle at 50% travel. This is a pretty common= system in corporate jets and airliners. Call it a pre-take up configuration= check. A light alone is not enough. I know of one incident where the door w= as left only on a pre-catch rather than latched on a citation. The crew took= off and the door blew open and flight. Fortunately they landed without inci= dent. In the particular series there is an annunciator light for the door bu= t no take off configuration check horn. Unfortunately for that crew the bulb= s in the annunciator happened to be burned out. Essentially a perfect storm t= hat could have resulted in fatalities with the crew that follow the checklis= t but didn't actually complete the item. The callout was latched, no lights.=
Everyone on this message board is flying some sort of very highly= advanced fast cross-country aircraft. Average piloting skills will not keep= you safe in this aircraft. We need to follow flows and quality checklists. = Fly all phases of flight to the well thought out profiles.
If you c= an't follow a checklist, or fly the aircraft during takeoff and landing to a= consistent profile you probably should not be flying. Having said that, I'm= pretty sure that everyone on this message board is capable of doing this.
Safe flying, add a horn.

Typing and grammar errors courtesy o= f Siri and the iPhone.

On Nov 5, 2013, at 12:12, Mike's Gmail &= lt;legacyl2k@gmail.com> wrote:=

Jay,

<= div>So people do rolling takeoffs and add power slowly which delays the prob= lem.  Others just don't notice until its too late.

=
Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 5, 2013, at 10:25 A= M, "Jay Phillips" <jayph@fastai= rplane.net> wrote:

=

I don=E2=80=99t understand how it is poss= ible to take off with the canopy unlatched. I don=E2=80=99t mean to express c= riticism, rather bewilderment.

<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se= rif";color:#1F497D"> 

= I have twice failed to latch the canopy on my Lega= cy prior to applying full power for takeoff. Both times, as soon as full pow= er was applied the canopy lifted 3-4 inches. I pulled the power to idle, sto= pped the aircraft and secured the canopy. Then kicked myself and continued o= n my way.

 

I know every aircraft is different. Is it that on some aircraft the can= opy fit is so tight that an unlatched canopy doesn=E2=80=99t open until the a= irspeed passes some threshold? In my cases the prop wash at full power was s= ufficient to lift the canopy.

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se= rif";color:#1F497D">Jay Phillips

= --Apple-Mail-BC5391E2-4E45-44E7-B345-104C0ED5474D--