X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 13:14:20 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost03.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.53] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTP id 6577592 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:38:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.53; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-145-16.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.145.16]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc03) with SMTP id <20131105173744H0300pnv6ve>; Tue, 5 Nov 2013 17:37:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.145.16] From: "Bill Bradburry" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Legacy Canopy Problem X-Original-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 12:37:53 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <88F3A59B09ED4084AC3B0CCED203FC4C@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEDA23.D97FB960" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac7aO7QcHSu4/uiURjGAgVpvdEpSjgAEJG6A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEDA23.D97FB960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is a good point, Mark! Now is a good time for everybody who has forgot to close the canopy and found it to be a non-event to pipe up with the details. Come on guys, fess up! Personally, I have experienced the event and if I had been more than a couple of feet off the ground when it happened I would not have survived it. The canopy flies up and down and with each cycle the pitch control comes and goes. To those of you who think it is a non-event, like practicing stalls, I say try it! Put on your little test pilot helmet and give it a go! In the meantime, be sure to add "canopy latched" to the check list and read the damn thing each time you are preparing for takeoff. Bill _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Sletten Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:28 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy Canopy Problem I strongly suspect the reason we don't hear about incidents where an open canopy didn't interfere with controllability is because it's not really an event worth discussing, plus there's an element of embarrassment. "Hey guys, I forgot to close my canopy before take-off and had to come back to land before I could finish my trip." Don't really hear too many stories about people forgetting to turn on the transponder either. "Hey guys, I forgot turn on the transponder before takeoff. ATC reminded me, so I turned it on." --Mark On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Erik Larson wrote: Guys, I think as a community we are practicing denial. There is a 500 pound gorilla standing in the corner of the room and everyone is ignoring him. Canopy problems are killing our friends. The solution is not more bells, lights, switches and alarms, but a fail safe secondary sprin- loaded mechanical latch like the secondary hood latch on your car. A modest team effort exchanging ideas and then teaming up to make some parts for retrofit would do the job. Hoping your canopy will stay shut is not a plan. Since fatal results are frequently obtained, lights and switches are not enough. Fred Moreno I must say, I ABSOLUTELY agree with Fred on this.... something has got to be done about this Legacy Canopy issue and SOON! At the very least, if Lancair is not going to address the issue directly with some kind of fail safe locking device, then they should, at the VERY least, amend the Legacy Operating Handbook, where it says, in so many words: "If the canopy is left unlocked.... no problem.... just fly the airplane and everything will be OK..." to something like: "If you leave the canopy unlocked on the Legacy and get off the ground....there is a VERY good chance you will DIE or if you're lucky, just severely injured..." I have followed these numerous canopy incidents/accidents and can NOT think of ONE, where it hasn't killed someone or if they are really lucky.... they come back with a harrowing tale of MAJOR controllability issues! Apparently this is not the case with the 235, 320, or 360... but with the Legacy...it ALWAYS is!!! As Fred said, Lights, Bells, Whistles, and Warnings are fine....but we need some sort of Fail Safe Latch or these tragic, needless accidents are going to keep happening. Someone mentioned a "simple safety pin through the canopy frame and the roll over structure".... while that may work as a secondary latch, it still requires you to "do something" before takeoff for it to work. A fail safe latch, by design, should allow you to taxi with the canopy cracked for ventilation but if the canopy is inadvertently left unlocked, to ultimately open NO more than a couple of inches. Aren't others in the Legacy community concerned about this? I know Fred is....I know I am!! Regards, Erik Larson Legacy N74FX 7years / 700 hrs in type 25,000+ hrs total time ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEDA23.D97FB960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

That is a good point, = Mark!

 

Now is a good time for everybody = who has forgot to close the canopy and found it to be a non-event to pipe up = with the details.  Come on guys, fess up!

 

Personally, I have experienced the = event and if I had been more than a couple of feet off the ground when it = happened I would not have survived it.  The canopy flies up and down and with each = cycle the pitch control comes and goes.

 

To those of you who think it is a non-event, like practicing stalls, I say try it!  Put on your = little test pilot helmet and give it a go!

 

In the meantime, be sure to add = “canopy latched” to the check list and read the damn thing each time you = are preparing for takeoff.

 

Bill

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Sletten
Sent: Tuesday, November = 05, 2013 10:28 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy = Canopy Problem

 

I strongly suspect the reason we don't hear about incidents = where an open canopy didn't interfere with controllability is because it's not = really an event worth discussing, plus there's an element of = embarrassment. 

 

"Hey guys, I forgot to close my canopy before take-off and = had to come back to land before I could finish my = trip."

 

Don't really hear too many stories about people forgetting to = turn on the transponder either.

 

"Hey guys, I forgot turn on the transponder before takeoff. = ATC reminded me, so I turned it on."

 

--Mark

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Erik Larson <asw20747@aol.com> = wrote:

Guys, I think as a community we are practicing denial.   There is a 500 pound gorilla standing in the corner of the room = and everyone is ignoring him.  

Canopy problems are killing our friends.  The solution is not more bells, = lights, switches and alarms, but a fail safe secondary sprin- loaded mechanical = latch like the secondary hood latch on your car.  A modest team = effort exchanging ideas and then teaming up to make some parts for = retrofit would do the job. 

Hoping your canopy will stay shut is not a plan.  Since fatal results = are frequently obtained, lights and switches are not = enough.

  

Fred Moreno

 

 

I must say, I ABSOLUTELY agree with Fred on this.... something has got to be = done about this Legacy Canopy issue and SOON!

 

At the very least, if Lancair is not going to address the issue directly with = some kind of fail safe locking device, then they should, at the VERY least, = amend the Legacy = Operating Handbook, where it says, in so many words:  "If the canopy is left unlocked.... no = problem.... just fly the airplane and everything will be OK..." =  to something like:  "If you = leave the canopy unlocked on the Legacy and get off the ground....there is a VERY = good chance you will DIE or if you're lucky, just severely = injured..."

 

I have followed these numerous canopy incidents/accidents and can NOT think of = ONE, where it hasn't killed someone or if they are really lucky.... they come = back with a harrowing tale of MAJOR controllability issues!  Apparently = this is not the case with the 235, 320, or 360... but with the Legacy...it = ALWAYS is!!!

 

As Fred said, Lights, Bells, Whistles, and Warnings are fine....but we need some = sort of Fail Safe Latch or these tragic, needless accidents are going to keep happening.

 

Someone mentioned a "simple safety pin through the canopy frame and the = roll over structure".... = while that may work as a secondary latch, it still requires you to "do something" before takeoff for it to work.

 

A fail safe latch, by design, should allow you to taxi with the canopy cracked = for ventilation but if the canopy is inadvertently left unlocked, to = ultimately open NO more than a couple of inches.

 

Aren't others in the Legacy community concerned about this? =  

 

I know Fred is....I know I am!!

 

Regards,<= /font>

 

Erik Larson

 

Legacy N74FX

7years / 700 hrs in type

25,000+ hrs total time

 

 

 

 

 

 

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