X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 08:23:46 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-pa0-f50.google.com ([209.85.220.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6577080 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 08:16:20 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.50; envelope-from=legacyl2k@gmail.com Received: by mail-pa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id fb1so8692061pad.37 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 05:15:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.66.158.202 with SMTP id ww10mr7579155pab.57.1383657346903; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 05:15:46 -0800 (PST) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.0.3] (71-35-70-47.phnx.qwest.net. [71.35.70.47]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pl1sm34591980pbb.20.2013.11.05.05.15.45 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Nov 2013 05:15:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Legacy Canopy Problem References: From: Mike Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-CB67F4DF-8B0F-4286-844D-A78CF3FAD2C1 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: <798148A5-06AF-417E-89AF-5B93580E22A0@gmail.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 06:15:45 -0700 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-CB67F4DF-8B0F-4286-844D-A78CF3FAD2C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Fred, I know of no canopy issues on the Legacy when locked prior to flight. I hav= e not heard or read of a latch failure on a Legacy. That being said, if you= lock the canopy it will stay shut. Forgetting to lock two locks will resul= t in the same error. Example of other systems on other airplanes that will kill you if you don't= follow some form of checklist: Leaving the fuel selector in the off positio= n prior to takeoff or not trimming the airplane prior to takeoff. The very f= irst airplane accident I ever witnessed was the former. The club had a rule= to turn off the fuel when finished. This particular type would allow you t= o taxi all the way to the runway and get to about 100 feet before the engine= would quit. Secondly example, If you don't put the trim in the proper plac= e on an Airbus it will not fly, we use "checklist, bells and whistles" to pr= event an error here. Bottom line, if your careless, it can kill you... Use= a checklist, dummy light, warning system of some sort. You"ll live longer a= nd be able to tell your stories over beers form many years. Mike Larkin... Sent from my iPad On Nov 5, 2013, at 5:47 AM, Erik Larson wrote: > Guys, I think as a community we are practicing denial. There is a 500 po= und gorilla standing in the corner of the room and everyone is ignoring him.= =20 > Canopy problems are killing our friends. The solution is not more bells, l= ights, switches and alarms, but a fail safe secondary sprin- loaded mechanic= al latch like the secondary hood latch on your car. A modest team effort ex= changing ideas and then teaming up to make some parts for retrofit would do t= he job.=20 > Hoping your canopy will stay shut is not a plan. Since fatal results are f= requently obtained, lights and switches are not enough. > =20 > Fred Moreno >=20 >=20 > I must say, I ABSOLUTELY agree with Fred on this.... something has got to b= e done about this Legacy Canopy issue and SOON! >=20 > At the very least, if Lancair is not going to address the issue directly w= ith some kind of fail safe locking device, then they should, at the VERY lea= st, amend the Legacy Operating Handbook, where it says, in so many words: "= If the canopy is left unlocked.... no problem.... just fly the airplane and e= verything will be OK..." to something like: "If you leave the canopy unloc= ked on the Legacy and get off the ground....there is a VERY good chance you w= ill DIE or if you're lucky, just severely injured..." >=20 > I have followed these numerous canopy incidents/accidents and can NOT thin= k of ONE, where it hasn't killed someone or if they are really lucky.... the= y come back with a harrowing tale of MAJOR controllability issues! Apparent= ly this is not the case with the 235, 320, or 360... but with the Legacy...i= t ALWAYS is!!! >=20 > As Fred said, Lights, Bells, Whistles, and Warnings are fine....but we nee= d some sort of Fail Safe Latch or these tragic, needless accidents are going= to keep happening. >=20 > Someone mentioned a "simple safety pin through the canopy frame and the ro= ll over structure".... while that may work as a secondary latch, it still re= quires you to "do something" before takeoff for it to work. >=20 > A fail safe latch, by design, should allow you to taxi with the canopy cra= cked for ventilation but if the canopy is inadvertently left unlocked, to ul= timately open NO more than a couple of inches. >=20 > Aren't others in the Legacy community concerned about this? =20 >=20 > I know Fred is....I know I am!! >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Erik Larson >=20 > Legacy N74FX > 7years / 700 hrs in type > 25,000+ hrs total time >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-CB67F4DF-8B0F-4286-844D-A78CF3FAD2C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Fred,

=
I know of no canopy issues on the Legacy when locked prior to flight. &= nbsp;I have not heard or read of a latch failure on a Legacy.  That bei= ng said, if you lock the canopy it will stay shut.  Forgetting to lock t= wo locks will result in the same error.

 Examp= le of other systems on other airplanes that will kill you if you don't follo= w some form of checklist: Leaving the fuel selector in the off position prio= r to takeoff or not trimming the airplane prior to takeoff.  The very f= irst airplane accident I ever witnessed was the former.  The club had a= rule to turn off the fuel when finished.  This particular type would a= llow you to taxi all the way to the runway and get to about 100 feet before t= he engine would quit.  Secondly example, If you don't put the trim in t= he proper place on an Airbus it will not fly, we use "checklist, bells and w= histles" to prevent an error here.  Bottom line, if your careless, it ca= n kill you...  Use a checklist, dummy light, warning system of some sor= t.  You"ll live longer and be able to tell your stories over beers form= many years.

Mike Larkin...

Sent from= my iPad

On Nov 5, 2013, at 5:47 AM, Erik Larson <asw20747@aol.com> wrote:

=
Guys, I think as a community we are= practicing denial.   There is a 500 pound gorilla standing i= n the corner of the room and everyone is ignoring him.  
Canopy problems are killing our fri= ends.  The solution is not more bells, lights, switches and alarms, but= a fail safe secondary sprin- loaded mechanical latch like the secondar= y hood latch on your car.  A modest team effort exchanging ideas a= nd then teaming up to make some parts for retrofit would do the job.&nb= sp;
Hoping your canopy will stay shut&n= bsp;is not a plan.  Since fatal results are frequently obtained, lights= and switches are not enough.
  
Fred Moreno


I must say, I ABSOLUTELY agree with Fred on t= his.... something has got to be done about this Legacy Canopy issue and SOON= !

At the very least, if Lancair is not going t= o address the issue directly with some kind of fail safe locking device, the= n they should, at the VERY least, amend the Legacy Operating Ha= ndbook, where it says, in so many words:  "If the canopy is left u= nlocked.... no problem.... just fly the airplane and everything will be OK..= ."  to something like:  "If you leave the canopy unlocke= d on the Legacy and get off the ground....there is a VERY good chance you wi= ll DIE or if you're lucky, just severely injured..."

I have followed these numerous canopy incide= nts/accidents and can NOT think of ONE, where it hasn't killed someone or if= they are really lucky.... they come back with a harrowing tale of MAJOR con= trollability issues!  Apparently this is not the case with the 235, 320= , or 360... but with the Legacy...it ALWAYS is!!!

As Fred said, Lights, Bells, Whistles, and W= arnings are fine....but we need some sort of Fail Safe Latch or these tragic= , needless accidents are going to keep happening.

Someone mentioned a "simple safety pin throu= gh the canopy frame and the roll over structure".... while that may w= ork as a secondary latch, it still requires you to "do something" before tak= eoff for it to work.

A fail safe latch, by d= esign, should allow you to taxi with the canopy cracked for ventilation but i= f the canopy is inadvertently left unlocked, to ultimately open NO more than= a couple of inches.

Aren't others in the L= egacy community concerned about this?  

I know Fred is....I kn= ow I am!!

Regards,

Erik Larson

Legacy N74FX
7years / 700 hrs in typ= e
25,000+ hrs total time<= /font>



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