X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 07:54:44 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f169.google.com ([209.85.214.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6459496 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 08 Sep 2013 20:02:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.169; envelope-from=toddlong1@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f169.google.com with SMTP id es8so5469890obc.28 for ; Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:01:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.60.65.227 with SMTP id a3mr9483234oet.13.1378684914995; Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [10.238.210.244] (240.sub-174-237-224.myvzw.com. [174.237.224.240]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id r6sm10055641obi.14.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: iPad overheated & quit! References: From: Todd Long Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2CAE0CF7-EF56-4040-900F-14C8D6D5B039 X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B329) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 19:01:50 -0500 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-2CAE0CF7-EF56-4040-900F-14C8D6D5B039 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Turn it on? Lol.=20 If you are in a 320/360 with the bubble good luck. Thy just aren't that brig= ht and glare. Need to have it mounted vertical for sure.=20 Typing and grammar errors courtesy of Siri and the iPhone. On Sep 8, 2013, at 18:43, "William A. Hogarty" wrote= : > I'm enjoying this discussion... Learning a lot. But I haven't learned t= he trick to > using my Ipad 1. Cant see the display in the cockpit because of sunlight.= Installed > a glareshield on the Ipad. Still cant read the display in the daylight. > =20 > Obviously, I'm missing something pretty basic. Can anyone help me out? > =20 > Thanks, Bill Hogarty >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller wrote: >> I lead nobody astray. But I suspect you might be optimistic about the r= eality of the label of "certified" in day to day use. It's no solution to po= tential failure. Having electronics subjected to a battery of lightning and= water tests has no bearing on whether they will or will not fail. They sti= ll fail. And they fail without being subjected to lightning and water too. = Many Garmins go back to the shop for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory= and other failures. You can't send one back unless you shell out more than= three iPads! How economical is that especially when you look at the cost o= f deriving that model and delivering it to the panel? >>=20 >> Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has failed= or required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to backstop p= otential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers that give you a w= arranty much past the burn in period are there? Certified boxes fail and s= ometimes they aren't even in sunlight when they fail. Cheltons fail, Avidyn= es fail, Garmins fail. They all fail. You are making a silly argument sugg= esting iPad can't be used in sunlight. In the same extreme sunlight, I will= get my face, arm and lips burned. It is simply a matter of keeping temps d= own in a reasonable range and out of direct sunlight and that goes for this p= ilot too. Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is no different than any o= ther device that exceeds the operating specs. But suggesting they aren't for= use in the cockpit is really over the top Colyn. Probably hundreds of tho= usands are in use every day in sunlight and they continue to provide the air= lines and this pilot much more information at a small fraction of the cost o= f the "certified" devices. And, they are better. Having a second in the b= ag is an affordable and easy backup. >>=20 >> These boxes and iPads both have a place. One costs an incredible amount a= nd can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is inexpensive= to own and duplicate and=85is used by the airlines. Go figure. An uncerti= fied iPad providing guidance in a certified jet. Who would have thought? >>=20 >> If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an economical= ly better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad I'd like to s= ee it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an extra $300-$400 your p= anel device loses in all categories of reliability and usefulness. I cou= ld be wrong. >>=20 >> Paul >>=20 >> On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case wrote: >>=20 >> > No that is not an insane comment. >> > A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent environ= mental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the tolerance m= atrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low probability. >> > An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the sun. >> > >> > Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both fai= l if they are in their intended environment. >> > >> > Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended environ= ment. >> > >> > You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that ga= rmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to the same= environment. >> > >> > On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote: >> > >> > Well that's just an insane comment. Might as well say if I disconnect t= he cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat. So what Colyn? >> > >> > Paul >> > On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case wrote: >> > >> >> kinda. >> >> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both will= behave the same. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.= html >> > >> > >> > -- >> > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.= html >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.ht= ml >=20 --Apple-Mail-2CAE0CF7-EF56-4040-900F-14C8D6D5B039 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Turn it on? Lol. 
If yo= u are in a 320/360 with the bubble good luck. Thy just aren't that bright an= d glare. Need to have it mounted vertical for sure. 

Typing and g= rammar errors courtesy of Siri and the iPhone.

On Sep 8, 2013,= at 18:43, "William A. Hogarty" <billhogarty@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm enjoying this discussion...  Learning a= lot.   But I haven't learned the trick to
using my Ipa= d 1.  Cant see the display in the cockpit because of sunlight.  In= stalled
a glareshield on the Ipad.  Still cant read the displ= ay in the daylight.
 
Obviously, I'm missing something pretty basic.  C= an anyone help me out?
 
Thanks, Bill Hogarty
=


On Fri, S= ep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com> wro= te:
I lead nobody astray.   But I suspect you= might be optimistic about the reality of the label of "certified" in day to= day use. It's no solution to potential failure.  Having electronics su= bjected to a battery of lightning and water tests has no bearing on whether t= hey will or will not fail.  They still fail. And they fail without bein= g subjected to lightning and water too.   Many Garmins go back to the s= hop for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory and other failures.  You= can't send one back unless you shell out more than three iPads!   How e= conomical is that especially when you look at the cost of deriving that mode= l and delivering it to the panel?

Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has failed or= required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to backstop pot= ential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers that give you a wa= rranty much past the burn in period are there?   Certified boxes fail a= nd sometimes they aren't even in sunlight when they fail.  Cheltons fai= l, Avidynes fail, Garmins fail.  They all fail.  You are making a s= illy argument suggesting iPad can't be used in sunlight.  In the same e= xtreme sunlight, I will get my face, arm and lips burned.  It is simply= a matter of keeping temps down in a reasonable range and out of direct sunl= ight and that goes for this pilot too.   Suggesting an iPad "predictabl= y fails" is no different than any other device that exceeds the operating sp= ecs. But suggesting they aren't for use in the cockpit is really over the to= p Colyn.   Probably hundreds of thousands are in use every day in sunli= ght and they continue to provide the airlines and this pilot much more infor= mation at a small fraction of the cost of the  "certified" devices. &nb= sp;And, they are better.   Having a second in the bag is an affordable a= nd easy backup.

These boxes and iPads both have a place.  One costs an incredible amoun= t and can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is inexpens= ive to own and duplicate and=E2=80=A6is used by the airlines.  Go figur= e.  An uncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified jet.  Wh= o would have thought?

If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an economically b= etter failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad I'd like to see i= t. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an extra $300-$400 your pane= l device loses in all categories of reliability and usefulness.    = ; I could be wrong.

Paul

On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:

> No that is not an insane comment.
> A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent environ= mental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the tolerance m= atrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low probability.
> An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the sun. >
> Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both fai= l if they are in their intended environment.
>
> Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended environ= ment.
>
> You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that ga= rmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to the same= environment.
>
> On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote:
>
> Well that's just an insane comment.  Might as well say if I discon= nect the cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat.   So wha= t Colyn?
>
> Paul
> On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> kinda.
>> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both w= ill behave the same.
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lm= l/List.html
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lm= l/List.html


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