X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f174.google.com ([209.85.214.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6459478 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 08 Sep 2013 19:44:22 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.174; envelope-from=billhogarty@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f174.google.com with SMTP id wd6so5375847obb.33 for ; Sun, 08 Sep 2013 16:43:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=eKS8rgJlgk5WXz4xrRHERVzmcBAN/YTGbCxGYDsqpEs=; b=vLquqaf1KVuigzIUKLFVAmY0P0Ahp6Kp/PonfFmx++iBTLUoUMXyXfwVTxWg4HWdQO pf/ViT4EYkaB42CwKS0pdqiBVBRzVNmWW1l+PVJ+25TKerYEt0R6xhnY2KdxIbVC/yay kjUdCejOZZ8l1FRrHjuMgONcckP37n46DPF/ZZrKh2Mtk1pp0hgPz58JFChij3VLu8Mw oGXHODRmHZ/tMU/KzqEqxvVR5rf12dB9UiqEVrHFp0HlUc8DPaCOOhlL2q2jWd6EvoQS Yd2NGtmgvP6E+EfXt71vn1+H2ugmR18NzO6m2/PihiHyMLEBNqv+y5ivKrcUoprDh5L4 UBvg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.98.162 with SMTP id ej2mr9605343obb.61.1378683826111; Sun, 08 Sep 2013 16:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.47.169 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Sep 2013 16:43:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 16:43:46 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: iPad overheated & quit! From: "William A. Hogarty" To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e46f0b68b3404e5e7d7d5 --047d7b2e46f0b68b3404e5e7d7d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm enjoying this discussion... Learning a lot. But I haven't learned the trick to using my Ipad 1. Cant see the display in the cockpit because of sunlight. Installed a glareshield on the Ipad. Still cant read the display in the daylight. Obviously, I'm missing something pretty basic. Can anyone help me out? Thanks, Bill Hogarty On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller wrote: > I lead nobody astray. But I suspect you might be optimistic about the > reality of the label of "certified" in day to day use. It's no solution t= o > potential failure. Having electronics subjected to a battery of lightnin= g > and water tests has no bearing on whether they will or will not fail. Th= ey > still fail. And they fail without being subjected to lightning and water > too. Many Garmins go back to the shop for chips, buttons, screens, knob= s, > memory and other failures. You can't send one back unless you shell out > more than three iPads! How economical is that especially when you look = at > the cost of deriving that model and delivering it to the panel? > > Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has failed > or required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to backsto= p > potential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers that give yo= u > a warranty much past the burn in period are there? Certified boxes fail > and sometimes they aren't even in sunlight when they fail. Cheltons fail= , > Avidynes fail, Garmins fail. They all fail. You are making a silly > argument suggesting iPad can't be used in sunlight. In the same extreme > sunlight, I will get my face, arm and lips burned. It is simply a matter > of keeping temps down in a reasonable range and out of direct sunlight an= d > that goes for this pilot too. Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is > no different than any other device that exceeds the operating specs. But > suggesting they aren't for use in the cockpit is really over the top Coly= n. > Probably hundreds of thousands are in use every day in sunlight and the= y > continue to provide the airlines and this pilot much more information at = a > small fraction of the cost of the "certified" devices. And, they are > better. Having a second in the bag is an affordable and easy backup. > > These boxes and iPads both have a place. One costs an incredible amount > and can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is > inexpensive to own and duplicate and=85is used by the airlines. Go figur= e. > An uncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified jet. Who would ha= ve > thought? > > If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an > economically better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad > I'd like to see it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an extra > $300-$400 your panel device loses in all categories of reliability and > usefulness. I could be wrong. > > Paul > > On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case wrote: > > > No that is not an insane comment. > > A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent > environmental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the > tolerance matrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low > probability. > > An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the sun. > > > > Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both fai= l > if they are in their intended environment. > > > > Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended > environment. > > > > You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that > garmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to the > same environment. > > > > On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote: > > > > Well that's just an insane comment. Might as well say if I disconnect > the cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat. So what Colyn= ? > > > > Paul > > On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case wrote: > > > >> kinda. > >> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both will > behave the same. > > > > > > -- > > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > > > > -- > > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > -- > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > --047d7b2e46f0b68b3404e5e7d7d5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm enjoying this discussion...=A0 Learning a lot= .=A0=A0 But I haven't learned the trick to
using my Ipad 1.= =A0 Cant see the display in the cockpit because of sunlight.=A0 Installed
a glareshield on the Ipad.=A0 Still cant read the display in the d= aylight.
=A0
Obviously, I'm missing something pretty basic.=A0 Ca= n anyone help me out?
=A0
Thanks, Bill Hogarty


On Fri, Se= p 6, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com> wr= ote:
I lead nobody astray. =A0 But I suspect you = might be optimistic about the reality of the label of "certified"= in day to day use. It's no solution to potential failure. =A0Having el= ectronics subjected to a battery of lightning and water tests has no bearin= g on whether they will or will not fail. =A0They still fail. And they fail = without being subjected to lightning and water too. =A0 Many Garmins go bac= k to the shop for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory and other failures= . =A0You can't send one back unless you shell out more than three iPads= ! =A0 How economical is that especially when you look at the cost of derivi= ng that model and delivering it to the panel?

Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has fail= ed or required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to backst= op potential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers that gi= ve you a warranty much past the burn in period are there? =A0 Certified box= es fail and sometimes they aren't even in sunlight when they fail. =A0C= heltons fail, Avidynes fail, Garmins fail. =A0They all fail. =A0You are mak= ing a silly argument suggesting iPad can't be used in sunlight. =A0In t= he same extreme sunlight, I will get my face, arm and lips burned. =A0It is= simply a matter of keeping temps down in a reasonable range and out of dir= ect sunlight and that goes for this pilot too. =A0 Suggesting an iPad "= ;predictably fails" is no different than any other device that exceeds= the operating specs. But suggesting they aren't for use in the cockpit= is really over the top Colyn. =A0 Probably hundreds of thousands are in us= e every day in sunlight and they continue to provide the airlines and this = pilot much more information at a small fraction of the cost of the =A0"= ;certified" devices. =A0And, they are better. =A0 Having a second in t= he bag is an affordable and easy backup.

These boxes and iPads both have a place. =A0One costs an incredible amount = and can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is inexp= ensive to own and duplicate and=85is used by the airlines. =A0Go figure. = =A0An uncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified jet. =A0Who would = have thought?

If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an economically= better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad I'd like t= o see it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an extra $300-$4= 00 your panel device loses in all categories of reliability and usefulness.= =A0 =A0 I could be wrong.

Paul

On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:

> No that is not an insane comment.
> A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent enviro= nmental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the toleranc= e matrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low probability. > An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the su= n.
>
> Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both fa= il if they are in their intended environment.
>
> Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended enviro= nment.
>
> You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that g= armins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to the sa= me environment.
>
> On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote:
>
> Well that's just an insane comment. =A0Might as well say if I disc= onnect the cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat. =A0 So wha= t Colyn?
>
> Paul
> On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> kinda.
>> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both = will behave the same.
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/= lml/List.html
>
>
> --
> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/= lml/List.html


--
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