Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
To:  lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2013 15:50:33 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-6458585@logan.com>
Received-SPF: neutral
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.89.16.30; envelope-from=danny@n107sd.com
From: "Danny" <danny@n107sd.com>
References: <list-6457863@logan.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-6457863@logan.com>
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: iPad overheated & quit!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
thread-index: Ac6r+mMiAh3Zz16eSVajEHVscdFAMwAAJoXA
Content-Language: en-us

There is validity to what you say.  Two years ago my GNS-430W had a screen
failure.  Garmin's policy is a flat rate of $900 to repair whatever goes
wrong.  For that much money I could have had a second top-of-the-line iPad
that gives me pretty much all my 430 does (sans the radio) ... PLUS, I don't
have to pay through the nose to keep the database current.

Danny
LNC2-360 Mk-II
Nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Miller [mailto:pjdmiller@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 11:59 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: iPad overheated & quit!

I lead nobody astray.   But I suspect you might be optimistic about the
reality of the label of "certified" in day to day use. It's no solution to
potential failure.  Having electronics subjected to a battery of lightning
and water tests has no bearing on whether they will or will not fail.  They
still fail. And they fail without being subjected to lightning and water
too.   Many Garmins go back to the shop for chips, buttons, screens, knobs,
memory and other failures.  You can't send one back unless you shell out
more than three iPads!   How economical is that especially when you look at
the cost of deriving that model and delivering it to the panel?

Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has failed or
required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to backstop
potential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers that give you a
warranty much past the burn in period are there?   Certified boxes fail and
sometimes they aren't even in sunlight when they fail.  Cheltons fail,
Avidynes fail, Garmins fail.  They all fail.  You are making a silly
argument suggesting iPad can't be used in sunlight.  In the same extreme
sunlight, I will get my face, arm and lips burned.  It is simply a matter of
keeping temps down in a reasonable range and out of direct sunlight and that
goes for this pilot too.   Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is no
different than any other device that exceeds the operating specs. But
suggesting they aren't for use in the cockpit is really over the top Colyn.
Probably hundreds of thousands are in use every day in sunlight and they
continue to provide the airlines and this pilot much more information at a
small fraction of the cost of the  "certified" devices.  And, they are
better.   Having a second in the bag is an affordable and easy backup.   

These boxes and iPads both have a place.  One costs an incredible amount and
can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is inexpensive to
own and duplicate and.is used by the airlines.  Go figure.  An uncertified
iPad providing guidance in a certified jet.  Who would have thought?

If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an economically
better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad I'd like to see
it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an extra $300-$400 your
panel device loses in all categories of reliability and usefulness.     I
could be wrong.

Paul

On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:

> No that is not an insane comment.
> A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent
environmental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the
tolerance matrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low
probability.
> An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the sun.
> 
> Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both fail
if they are in their intended environment.
> 
> Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended
environment.
> 
> You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that
garmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to the
same environment.
> 
> On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote:
> 
> Well that's just an insane comment.  Might as well say if I disconnect the
cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat.   So what Colyn?
> 
> Paul
> On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> kinda.
>> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both will
behave the same.
> 
> 
> --
> For archives and unsub
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
> 
> 
> --
> For archives and unsub
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html


--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html