X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6458411 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 07 Sep 2013 12:36:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.80; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.138]) by omr-m06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id A42E7700000BC for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2013 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mtd002b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtd002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.235.197]) by mtaomg-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 7776FE000082 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2013 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com Full-name: Sky2high Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: IO470 in a Legacy To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_e7d3c.6cb8b2cd.3f5cafee_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [67.175.156.123] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1378571758; bh=4OOauC/c1DF7qz5uLFjefcEBUrf7Dw2cGnST1bXhoIM=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Nik/TLzBtt05+zBtmglDdStQ56XRUA6bC6QsGAaGVpPU4v7KBm7uCxyn6ya7xLhXb 4XT7Tk8HTtmPTs48+9yAqw9ECY0UVxCDvBTRRUKqa2RXkJyR3Lc0vPMYhZhyvvWvN6 Dry8JVLy6VwprO7cpuYG7cfsH2zqG/LWAqjdGC4I= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338a522b55ee5c87 --part1_e7d3c.6cb8b2cd.3f5cafee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wait, don't give up yet ....... Have you considered electric? Look at those Lithium (Li) iron (Fe) phosphate batteries, equal power at much less weight and smaller size than lead/acid. Come on - Somebody has to be first. See http://aerovoltz.com/ Grayhawk In a message dated 9/7/2013 11:18:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mwsletten@gmail.com writes: Wow, that didn't take long. I knew I was going to get some I-TOLD-YOU-SOs, but I kinda hoped I'd get some help first... Ba da bing! But seriously... Here's the scoop for you Hyenas. Deltahawk is STILL working on getting an engine FAA certified. When I originally considered a Deltahawk the company planned on selling experimental engines and using in-service data towards development of a certified engine. Then they shifted gears and decided to get an engine certified first--mainly, I believe, because they see much potential in the UAV market, and the FAA has decreed UAVs cannot operate in U.S. airspace without FAA-certified engines, but also because it's prolly not a good idea to use your aviation engine customers as beta testers. Then funding problems (ongoing), one of the company founders passed away, a few engineering issues (mostly fixed) and so on and so on... Bottom line, I couldn't wait for Deltahawk any longer. Next up, the Subaru debacle. I was still determined to use something "21st century," so I looked at auto conversions. A company in FLA was selling a "fully engineered" auto conversion based on the vaunted Subaru boxer design. Seemed like a great fit: a horizontally opposed engine with liquid cooling and modern EFI, and BONUS, everything I could find online at the time (including discussions with many happy customers) suggested the product was top shelf. Even discussed the issue with underwriters who all said the product had a good history and was insurable. Well, not everything was as it seemed during my research, and new info has come to light. There are issues with the gear reduction unit raising questions about its reliability (at best, it will require frequent tear downs for inspection--a worrisome prospect rife with the possibility of maintenance-induced failure), and based on the performance users are reporting (there are many flying; one of the reasons I was convinced to become a customer) it's clear the engine as designed is not producing even close to the claimed horsepower, likely due to poor intake/exhaust design. There are a few other nitnoid issues, but those are the biggies. I'll be operating off a 2,600' runway (granted, it's near sea level, but still), so I needed all the ponies the designer was advertising. Plus, as we all know, the Lancair design does not leave much room for error when it comes to in-flight power loss (although I believe the wing cuffs for the Legacy offer much promise to ameliorate the worst of those issues), so it began to seem more and more unwise to start off with an engine that might be more failure prone. The nail in the coffin came when the "manufacturer" shut down his Subaru-based business--because of the bad economy, he says--and has announced he will no longer support customers who purchased his Subaru-based kit. In the mean time, he has started another company producing auto conversions (Honda-based) for LSA use. Hmmmmmm. (There is more to this story I cannot discuss at present; accusations, investigations, recriminations and all that.) SOOOOOO, after YEARS of wasted time, it looks like I'll be using a good old tried and true old-timey/tech passe air-cooled engine of yesteryear... just like (most) everyone else... And that's what happened to the diesel idea... and the Subaru too... And to all of you here on the LML who told me this would happen... Yeah, yeah, you were right and I, the maverick, was wrong. I now see that resistance is (and always has been) futile. As a single, lonely figurative tear rolls slowly down my cheek (not because you guys are mean--that's one of your more endearing qualities--but because of the thousands of dollars I had to tell my wife I wasted) I realize I will now be assimilated into the collective and that you, the Borg, have won. DO YA feel better now? Back to business: Anybody got a spare 550 engine mount for a Legacy? I can trade a nice Subaru-inspired paperweight... :) --Mark ____________________________________________ From: "Gary Fitzgerald" <_gbfitz@swbell.net_ (mailto:gbfitz@swbell.net) > Sender: <_marv@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:marv@lancaironline.net) > Subject: [LML] Re: IO470 in a Legacy Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 23:59:18 -0400 Or the Subaru?? Gary Fitzgerald LNC2 ~70% St. Charles, MO (Still) Looking for a good deal on a rebuildable or used (I)O-360 ____________________________________________ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:_lml@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:lml@lancaironline.net) ] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 2:41 PM Subject: [LML] Re: IO470 in a Legacy Mark, what happened to the diesel idea?? Bill --part1_e7d3c.6cb8b2cd.3f5cafee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wait, don't give up yet .......
 
Have you considered electric?
 
Look at those Lithium (Li) iron (Fe) phosphate batteries, eq= ual=20 power at much less weight and smaller size than lead/acid.  Come = on -=20 Somebody has to be first.
 
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 9/7/2013 11:18:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 mwsletten@gmail.com writes:
=

Wow, that didn't take long. I knew I was going to get some=20 I-TOLD-YOU-SOs, but I kinda hoped I'd get some help first... Ba da bing!<= /DIV>

But seriously... Here's the scoop for you Hyenas.

Deltahawk is STILL working on getting an engine FAA certified. When = I=20 originally considered a Deltahawk the company planned on selling experime= ntal=20 engines and using in-service data towards development of a certified engi= ne.=20 Then they shifted gears and decided to get an engine certified first--mai= nly,=20 I believe, because they see much potential in the UAV market, and the FAA= has=20 decreed UAVs cannot operate in U.S. airspace without FAA-certified engine= s,=20 but also because it's prolly not a good idea to use your aviation engine= =20 customers as beta testers. Then funding problems (ongoing), one of the co= mpany=20 founders passed away, a few engineering issues (mostly fixed) and so on a= nd so=20 on... Bottom line, I couldn't wait for Deltahawk any longer.

Next up, the Subaru debacle. I was still determined to use something= =20 "21st century," so I looked at auto conversions. A company in FLA was sel= ling=20 a "fully engineered" auto conversion based on the vaunted Subaru boxer de= sign.=20 Seemed like a great fit: a horizontally opposed engine with liquid coolin= g and=20 modern EFI, and BONUS, everything I could find online at the time (includ= ing=20 discussions with many happy customers) suggested the product was top shel= f.=20 Even discussed the issue with underwriters who all said the product had a= good=20 history and was insurable.

Well, not everything was as it seemed during my research, and new in= fo=20 has come to light. There are issues with the gear reduction unit raising= =20 questions about its reliability (at best, it will require frequent tear d= owns=20 for inspection--a worrisome prospect rife with the possibility of=20 maintenance-induced failure), and based on the performance users are repo= rting=20 (there are many flying; one of the reasons I was convinced to become a=20 customer) it's clear the engine as designed is not producing even close t= o the=20 claimed horsepower, likely due to poor intake/exhaust design. There are a= few=20 other nitnoid issues, but those are the biggies. 

I'll be operating off a 2,600' runway (granted, it's near sea level,= but=20 still), so I needed all the ponies the designer was advertising. Plus, as= we=20 all know, the Lancair design does not leave much room for error when it c= omes=20 to in-flight power loss (although I believe the wing cuffs for the Legacy= =20 offer much promise to ameliorate the worst of those issues), so it began = to=20 seem more and more unwise to start off with an engine that might be more= =20 failure prone. The nail in the coffin came when the "manufacturer" shut d= own=20 his Subaru-based business--because of the bad economy, he says--and has= =20 announced he will no longer support customers who purchased his Subaru-ba= sed=20 kit.  In the mean time, he has started another company producing aut= o=20 conversions (Honda-based) for LSA use.  Hmmmmmm. (There is more to t= his=20 story I cannot discuss at present; accusations, investigations, recrimina= tions=20 and all that.)

SOOOOOO, after YEARS of wasted time, it looks like I'll be using a g= ood=20 old tried and true old-timey/tech passe air-cooled engine of yesteryear..= .=20 just like (most) everyone else...

And that's what happened to the diesel idea... and the Subaru too...= And=20 to all of you here on the LML who told me this would happen... Yeah, yeah= , you=20 were right and I, the maverick, was wrong. I now see that resistance is (= and=20 always has been) futile. As a single, lonely figurative tear rolls slowly= down=20 my cheek (not because you guys are mean--that's one of your more endearin= g=20 qualities--but because of the thousands of dollars I had to tell my wife = I=20 wasted) I realize I will now be assimilated into the collective and that = you,=20 the Borg, have won. DO YA feel better now?

Back to business: Anybody got a spare 550 engine mount for a Legacy?= I=20 can trade a nice Subaru-inspired paperweight...

:)

--Mark


____________________________________________


From: "Gary Fitzgerald"= <gbfitz@swbell.net>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] Re: IO47= 0 in a=20 Legacy
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013= =20 23:59:18 -0400


Or the Subaru??
 

Gary Fitzgerald

LNC2 ~70%
St. Charles, MO
(Still) Looking for a good deal on
a rebuildable or used (I)O-360


____________________________________________ 



From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 2:41 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: IO470 in a Legacy

 

Mark, what happened to the diesel idea??

 

Bill
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