Panel Avionics - produced only in the thousands, incredible costs associated with R&D and certification, built to operate in a hostile environment, error rate = errors / (flight hours X thousands)

 

Consumer electronics - produced in the millions with reasonable R&D costs and much simpler certification, built to be operated by children and old people, error rate = errors / (tons of operating hours X millions)

 

Yep, looks comparable to me.

 

Grayhawk

 

PS getting two may not be enough...........

 

I lead nobody astray.   But I suspect you might be optimistic about the reality of the label of "certified" in day to day use. It's no solution to potential failure.  Having electronics subjected to a battery of lightning and water tests has no bearing on whether they will or will not fail.  They still fail. And they fail without being subjected to lightning and water too.   Many Garmins go back to the shop for chips, buttons, screens, knobs, memory and other failures.  You can't send one back unless you shell out more than three iPads!   How economical is that especially when you look at the cost of deriving that model and delivering it to the panel?

Almost every high-cost piece of certified equipment I've owned has failed or required expensive factory repairs or an expensive warranty to backstop potential repairs. There aren't many certified manufacturers that give you a warranty much past the burn in period are there?   Certified boxes fail and sometimes they aren't even in sunlight when they fail.  Cheltons fail, Avidynes fail, Garmins fail.  They all fail.  You are making a silly argument suggesting iPad can't be used in sunlight.  In the same extreme sunlight, I will get my face, arm and lips burned.  It is simply a matter of keeping temps down in a reasonable range and out of direct sunlight and that goes for this pilot too.   Suggesting an iPad "predictably fails" is no different than any other device that exceeds the operating specs. But suggesting they aren't for use in the cockpit is really over the top Colyn.   Probably hundreds of thousands are in use every day in sunlight and they continue to provide the airlines and this pilot much more information at a small fraction of the cost of the  "certified" devices.  And, they are better.   Having a second in the bag is an affordable and easy backup.  

These boxes and iPads both have a place.  One costs an incredible amount and can't be updated easily and the other comes off the shelf, is inexpensive to own and duplicate and…is used by the airlines.  Go figure.  An uncertified iPad providing guidance in a certified jet.  Who would have thought?

If you have stats that show Garmins or any other brand have an economically better failure rate than consumer electronics like the iPad I'd like to see it. I'm betting if you double up on the iPad for an extra $300-$400 your panel device loses in all categories of reliability and usefulness.     I could be wrong.

Paul

On 2013-09-06, at 5:55 PM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:

> No that is not an insane comment.
> A Garmin fails because either you exceeded the fairly stringent environmental specs, or there was a chip that was in a bad corner of the tolerance matrix, or something else that is statistically fairly low probability.
> An ipad fails reliably because it wasn't designed to sit in the sun.
>
> Having two garmins definitely lowers the probability of having both fail if they are in their intended environment.
>
> Having two ipads does nothing if they are not in their intended environment.
>
> You are leading people astray if you are implying that the fact that garmins fail sometimes makes them no better than an ipad subjected to the same environment.
>
> On Sep 6, 2013, at 11:31 AM, Paul Miller wrote:
>
> Well that's just an insane comment.  Might as well say if I disconnect the cooling air from two Garmins they will both overheat.   So what Colyn?
>
> Paul
> On 2013-09-06, at 8:49 AM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> kinda.
>> If you put two ipads on your glare shield in the sun, likely both will behave the same.
>
>
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