X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 07:54:24 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-pb0-f52.google.com ([209.85.160.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6456258 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Sep 2013 21:23:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.52; envelope-from=keith.smith@gmail.com Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id wz12so2513793pbc.25 for ; Thu, 05 Sep 2013 18:22:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.121.131 with SMTP id lk3mr934302pab.61.1378430562220; Thu, 05 Sep 2013 18:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.57.103 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Sep 2013 18:22:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: X-Original-Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 21:22:42 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Flaps, glide ratio, RPM effects and making the runway From: Keith Smith X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e138d02448004e5ace03f --047d7b2e138d02448004e5ace03f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dan, I never ran the numbers for anything other than the cruise/low drag config. That's the one that counts for me...the rest is by feel as I'm turning final. The only engine out testing I did during my transition training was one landing before the last landing with my instructor. We were abeam the numbers at pattern altitude, he pulled the powered and said, "turn." "geez, really?" "yeah. Turn." So I turned, and he was right. I said, "can I pull the prop back?" "no, you probably won't remember to do that in an emergency." So, with gear and no flap, we made the runway, but floated for quite a while after that. Having had more time with the plane myself, I became quite comfortable pulling the prop and what a different it made. My overall experience in the pattern is just what you describe. Keep it clean and on speed until landing is more than assured...then gear, flaps and start adding the prop. The difference the prop makes is astounding. I do now remember an occasion where I wanted to see what descent rate I could get in the landing config. It settled on around 2000fpm with full flap, gear, prop forward and 90kias. It comes down like a feather or a grand piano, your choice. What more could you ask? :) I was making it a point to do power offs at various airports (not just the home drone) from random points in the pattern every 1 in 4 to 5 landings. My flying is much less frequent now and I've backed off that schedule...time to get back on it. Have had two real engine outs (one at 10k, one at 3k), haven't forgotten to pull the prop yet. Once the change in drag is burned into your brain, it's instinctive to pull that blue knob. It feels like letting go of the brakes, it's very distinctive. Both engine outs were carb ice related. The carb temp gauge and I have since become best friends. Keith On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Dan & Kari Olsen wrot= e: > LMLers,**** > > ** ** > > During flight testing of my 320 several years ago, I collected glide rati= o > data for 3 different configurations as you can see below in the copy of t= he > spreadsheet where I keep this data.**** > > ** ** > > *Config* > > *Flaps* > > *Gear* > > *Prop* > > *Decent Rate* > > *KIAS* > > *Glide Ratio* > > Cruise/low drag**** > > up**** > > up**** > > low RPM**** > > 600**** > > 103**** > > 17.3**** > > Approach/low drag**** > > 10 deg**** > > down**** > > low RPM**** > > 1300**** > > 92**** > > 7.1**** > > Approach/high drag**** > > 10 deg**** > > down**** > > high RPM**** > > 1900**** > > 92**** > > 4.9**** > > *NOTES:* > > Test aircraft is Lancair 320 MKII, N320DK, owned and flown by Dan Olsen o= n > 8/10/04**** > > Engine is Lycoming IO-320-D1B, stock, 160hp**** > > Prop is Hartzell HC-F2YL-8468-14D**** > > Engine power set to idle (not completely shut off)**** > > Empty weight**** > > 1142**** > > Pilot**** > > 195**** > > Fuel (36gal)**** > > 216**** > > Baggage**** > > 20**** > > Gross Weight**** > > 1573**** > > Test altitude was 7500' - 9500'**** > > Aircraft was flown with Jim Frantz's AOA Pro at the best glide AOA and > KIAS was then noted**** > > ** ** > > It is quite alarming to see the incredible difference between a clean, ma= x > glide config and a normal approach to landing config. Glide ratio goes > from 17:1 down to 5:1. I remember speaking with Orin Riddel at the Lanca= ir > factory years ago and him describing that if you were on downwind, abeam > the numbers, and your engine quit and you left it in the high-drag congif= , > you will not make the runway. First reaction should be to immediately > retract the gear, low RPM on the prop and get the flaps up.**** > > ** ** > > I practice this scenario regularly and I can always make the runway with > the main issue typically being that I land long and have to turn up the R= PM > to add drag on short final:**** > > **=B7 **Fly normal downwind**** > > **=B7 **Chop the throttle to dead idle on downwind**** > > **=B7 **Low RPM (coarse pitch)**** > > **=B7 **Gear and flaps up**** > > **=B7 **Pitch for best L/D on the AOA**** > > **=B7 **Fly the pattern (tighter than normal)**** > > **=B7 **On short final when runway is assured, drop the gear and > 10deg flaps**** > > **=B7 **Add flaps and increase RPM, as necessary, to avoid landin= g > dangerously long**** > > ** ** > > I encourage all Lancair drivers to get some experience with your plane in > the various drag scenarios with the engine at idle, especially the dramat= ic > difference that flat vs. coarse pitch on your prop makes. There is nothi= ng > like feeling it for real to teach you some of the =93muscle memory=94 nee= ded to > react in a pinch.**** > > ** ** > > Upon departing OSH a few weeks ago, I wanted to fly across Lake Michigan > to visit my daughter. Going around is very long and going over is very > scary J So, I was able to take the knowledge from actual glide testing > of my 320 to create the following table to show how high above the water = I > need to be in order to glide to the shore in the case of engine failure a= t > the middle of the lake. The area of the lake I went across was about 60n= m > across, so 30nm from center to shore.**** > > ** ** > > Lancair 320**** > > N320DK**** > > *Glide Ratio* > > 17**** > > 15**** > > 12**** > > 10**** > > 8**** > > 7**** > > 5**** > > *Distance to Glide (nm)* > > 50**** > > 17,871 **** > > 20,253 **** > > 25,317 **** > > 30,380 **** > > 37,975 **** > > 43,400 **** > > 60,760 **** > > 45**** > > 16,084 **** > > 18,228 **** > > 22,785 **** > > 27,342 **** > > 34,178 **** > > 39,060 **** > > 54,684 **** > > 40**** > > 14,296 **** > > 16,203 **** > > 20,253 **** > > 24,304 **** > > 30,380 **** > > 34,720 **** > > 48,608 **** > > 35**** > > 12,509 **** > > 14,177 **** > > 17,722 **** > > 21,266 **** > > 26,583 **** > > 30,380 **** > > 42,532 **** > > 30**** > > 10,722 **** > > 12,152 **** > > 15,190 **** > > 18,228 **** > > 22,785 **** > > 26,040 **** > > 36,456 **** > > 25**** > > 8,935 **** > > 10,127 **** > > 12,658 **** > > 15,190 **** > > 18,988 **** > > 21,700 **** > > 30,380 **** > > 20**** > > 7,148 **** > > 8,101 **** > > 10,127 **** > > 12,152 **** > > 15,190 **** > > 17,360 **** > > 24,304 **** > > 15**** > > 5,361 **** > > 6,076 **** > > 7,595 **** > > 9,114 **** > > 11,393 **** > > 13,020 **** > > 18,228 **** > > 10**** > > 3,574 **** > > 4,051 **** > > 5,063 **** > > 6,076 **** > > 7,595 **** > > 8,680 **** > > 12,152 **** > > 5**** > > 1,787 **** > > 2,025 **** > > 2,532 **** > > 3,038 **** > > 3,798 **** > > 4,340 **** > > 6,076 **** > > 1**** > > 357 **** > > 405 **** > > 506 **** > > 608 **** > > 760 **** > > 868 **** > > 1,215 **** > > Clean > Low RPM**** > > Landing > Low RPM**** > > Landing > High RPM**** > > ** ** > > My table shows about 12,500=92 above the water (approx. 13,500=92 MSL) wo= uld > get me to the shore (to be conservative I used a 15:1 glide ratio even > though my testing showed 17:1 because the engine was still producing > minimal power during the test). So, with approved floatation gear donned= , > we charged across at 15,500=92, giving us a good 5nm of buffer to account= for > extra weight and other fudge factors.**** > > ** ** > > I hope this data is helpful to some of you and encouraging to others to g= o > do this testing and practice engine-out procedures in your Lancair.**** > > ** ** > > Regards,**** > > ** ** > > Dan Olsen**** > > N320DK =96 750 hrs**** > > IV-P in gestation**** > --047d7b2e138d02448004e5ace03f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dan,

I never ran the numbers for any= thing other than the cruise/low drag config. That's the one that counts= for me...the rest is by feel as I'm turning final.

The only engine out testing I did during my transition training was on= e landing before the last landing with my instructor. We were abeam the num= bers at pattern altitude, he pulled the powered and said, "turn."=

"geez, really?"

&quo= t;yeah. Turn."

So I turned, and he was right.= I said, "can I pull the prop back?" =A0"no, you probably wo= n't remember to do that in an emergency."

So, with gear and no flap, we made the runway, but floa= ted for quite a while after that.

Having had more = time with the plane myself, I became quite comfortable pulling the prop and= what a different it made. My overall experience in the pattern is just wha= t you describe. Keep it clean and on speed until landing is more than assur= ed...then gear, flaps and start adding the prop. =A0The difference the prop= makes is astounding.

I do now remember an occasion where I wanted to see wha= t descent rate I could get in the landing config. It settled on around 2000= fpm with full flap, gear, prop forward and 90kias. It comes down like a fea= ther or a grand piano, your choice. What more could you ask? :)

I was making it a point to do power offs at various air= ports (not just the home drone) from random points in the pattern every 1 i= n 4 to 5 landings. My flying is much less frequent now and I've backed = off that schedule...time to get back on it.

Have had two real engine outs (one at 10k, one at 3k), = haven't forgotten to pull the prop yet. Once the change in drag is burn= ed into your brain, it's instinctive to pull that blue knob. It feels l= ike letting go of the brakes, it's very distinctive. Both engine outs w= ere carb ice related. The carb temp gauge and I have since become best frie= nds.

Keith


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Dan & Kari Ols= en <olsen25@comcast.net> wrote:

LMLers,

=A0

During flight testing of my 320 several years ago, I= collected glide ratio data for 3 different configurations as you can see b= elow in the copy of the spreadsheet where I keep this data.

=A0

= = =

1900

Config

Flaps

Gear

Prop

Decent Rate

KIAS

Glide Ratio

Cruise/low drag

<= /td>

up

up

low RPM

600

103

17.3

Approach/low drag

10 deg

down

low RPM

1300

92

7.1

Approach/high drag

10 deg

down

high RPM

92

4.9

NOTES:

Test aircraft is Lancair 320 MKII, N320DK= , owned and flown by Dan Olsen on 8/10/04

Engine is Lycoming IO-320-D1B, stock, 160= hp

Prop is Hartzell HC-F2YL-8468-14D

Engine power set to idle (not completely = shut off)

Empty weight

1142

Pilot

195

Fuel (36gal)

216

Baggage

20

Gross Weight

1573

Test altitude was 7500' - 9500'

Aircraft was flown with Jim Frantz's AOA Pro at the = best glide AOA and KIAS was then noted

=A0

It is quite alarming to see the incredible difference bet= ween a clean, max glide config and a normal approach to landing config.=A0 = Glide ratio goes from 17:1 down to 5:1.=A0 I remember speaking with Orin Ri= ddel at the Lancair factory years ago and him describing that if you were o= n downwind, abeam the numbers, and your engine quit and you left it in the = high-drag congif, you will not make the runway.=A0 First reaction should be= to immediately retract the gear, low RPM on the prop and get the flaps up.=

=A0

I practi= ce this scenario regularly and I can always make the runway with the main i= ssue typically being that I land long and have to turn up the RPM to add dr= ag on short final:

=B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Fly normal downwind

=B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Chop the throt= tle to dead idle on downwind

=B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Low RPM (coarse pitch)

=B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Gear and = flaps up

=B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Pitch for best L/D on the AOA

=B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Fly = the pattern (tighter than normal)

=B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 On short final when runway is assured, drop the gear and 10deg = flaps

=B7=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Add flaps and increase RPM, as necessary, to avoid landing dang= erously long

=A0

I encour= age all Lancair drivers to get some experience with your plane in the vario= us drag scenarios with the engine at idle, especially the dramatic differen= ce that flat vs. coarse pitch on your prop makes.=A0 There is nothing like = feeling it for real to teach you some of the =93muscle memory=94 needed to = react in a pinch.

=A0

Upon dep= arting OSH a few weeks ago, I wanted to fly across Lake Michigan to visit m= y daughter.=A0 Going around is very long and going over is very scary J=A0 So, I was able to take the kno= wledge from actual glide testing of my 320 to create the following table to= show how high above the water I need to be in order to glide to the shore = in the case of engine failure at the middle of the lake.=A0 The area of the= lake I went across was about 60nm across, so 30nm from center to shore.=

=A0

Distance to Glide (nm)

Lancair 320

N320DK

Glide Ratio

17

15

12

10

8

7

5

50

=A0=A0=A0 17,871

=A0=A0=A0=A020,253 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A025,317 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A030,380 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A037,975 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A043,400 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A060,760 <= /p>

45

=A0=A0=A0 16,084

=A0=A0=A0=A018,228 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A022,785 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A027,342 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A034,178 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A039,060 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A054,684 <= /p>

40

=A0=A0=A0 14,296

=A0=A0=A0=A016,203 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A020,253 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A024,304 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A030,380 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A034,720 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A048,608 <= /p>

35

=A0=A0=A0 12,509

=A0=A0=A0=A014,177 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A017,722 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A021,266 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A026,583 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A030,380 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A042,532 <= /p>

30

=A0=A0=A0 10,722

=A0=A0=A0=A012,152 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A015,190 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A018,228 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A022,785 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A026,040 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A036,456 <= /p>

25

=A0=A0=A0=A0 8,935 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A010,127 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A012,658 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A015,190 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A018,988 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A021,700 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A030,380 <= /p>

20

=A0=A0=A0=A0 7,148 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A08,101

=A0=A0=A0=A010,127 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A012,152 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A015,190 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A017,360 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A024,304 <= /p>

15

=A0=A0=A0 =A05,361 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A06,076

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A07,595

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A09,114

=A0=A0=A0=A011,393 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A013,020 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A018,228 <= /p>

10

=A0=A0=A0=A0 3,574 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A04,051

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A05,063

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A06,076

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A07,595

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A08,680

=A0=A0=A0=A012,152 <= /p>

5

=A0=A0=A0=A0 1,787 <= /p>

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02,025

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02,532

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A03,038

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A03,798

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A04,340

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A06,076

1

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 357 <= /span>

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0405

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0506

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0608

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0760

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0868

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A01,215

Clean
Low RPM

 =

Landing
Low RPM

Landing
High RPM

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal"> =A0

My table shows about 12,500=92 = above the water (approx. 13,500=92 MSL) would get me to the shore (to be co= nservative I used a 15:1 glide ratio even though my testing showed 17:1 bec= ause the engine was still producing minimal power during the test).=A0 So, = with approved floatation gear donned, we charged across at 15,500=92, givin= g us a good 5nm of buffer to account for extra weight and other fudge facto= rs.

=A0

I hope t= his data is helpful to some of you and encouraging to others to go do this = testing and practice engine-out procedures in your Lancair.

=A0

Regards,=

=A0

Dan Olsen

N320DK =96 750 = hrs

IV-P in gestation


--047d7b2e138d02448004e5ace03f--