X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 15:49:04 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-pb0-f50.google.com ([209.85.160.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6416548 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 15:31:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.50; envelope-from=pjdmiller@gmail.com Received: by mail-pb0-f50.google.com with SMTP id uo5so8224683pbc.23 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:30:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.185.162 with SMTP id fd2mr4466332pbc.173.1376422242454; Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:30:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.143] (S010620aa4b008706.cg.shawcable.net. [174.0.112.194]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gg9sm6672155pbc.25.2013.08.13.12.30.40 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:30:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Miller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F38E66F7-CCD3-49F5-901E-D851DEE48553" X-Original-Message-Id: <006A30DB-25D5-4118-A026-4D46A952233F@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Flaps on take-off? X-Original-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:30:39 -0600 References: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) --Apple-Mail=_F38E66F7-CCD3-49F5-901E-D851DEE48553 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 the difference between surviving is preventing a stall versus controlled = impact. flaps up is higher stall speed. So many accidents are stall = related. That has to be a big factor in your thought process, more than = the train tracks or gear up issues i think. Having said that, at = takeoff I think we only have a few seconds before impact if the engine = quits so either you know it by heart or you don't. Paul On 2013-08-13, at 1:17 PM, Matt losangeles = wrote: > Good question. > =20 > It really depends on how low. If it is low to the point where I am not = going to make it to low key, I am going to land straight ahead = somewhere. If it is my home field I am putting on the train tracks which = run parallel to the runway and right next to it, KWHP while praying for = no train. It is very much a part of my process to work the trim and = flaps at the same time after I put the gear down. I image in this = situation I will not be putting the gear down, I have always planned on = belly up for this scenario. The sudden loss of power is going to demand = a pitch change so I am sure I will be doing that instinctively. Will I = be running the flaps down at the same time, who knows. Perhaps if I = remember to. It is likely because that is what I always do when I get = ready to land, run the flaps and trim at the same time while looking out = the left window at my flap position. I also make trim changes in flight = all the time like when I level off. I am not running the flaps then so = who knows. I might forget and end up landing fast. With the heart = pumping and the stress it is hard to say for certain what would happen. = I do know this, there is a certain small chance that I wouldn't have = time to or would forget to put the flaps down for landing in this = situation. I also know that there is a certain small chance that I take = off and departure gives me some instruction that requires me to look at = my map, I am stillchoosing the I don't want departure to distract me and = cause me to fixate at the wrong time causing my plane to be pointed nose = up at 1000 agl because they distracted me while I was cleaning my flaps = up. Ohh, I have been distracted this way in the past while taking off. = It is hard to always ignore the controllers. They tend to switch things = on you right when you check in with them sometimes requiring you to = write things down. > =20 > Matt --Apple-Mail=_F38E66F7-CCD3-49F5-901E-D851DEE48553 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 the = difference between surviving is preventing a stall versus controlled = impact.  flaps up is higher stall speed.   So many accidents = are stall related.  That has to be a big factor in your thought = process, more than the train tracks or gear up issues i think.   = Having said that, at takeoff I think we only have a few seconds before = impact if the engine quits so either you know it by heart or you = don't.

Paul
On 2013-08-13, at 1:17 PM, = Matt losangeles <mattinlosangeles@yahoo.com&= gt; wrote:

Good = question.
 
It really = depends on how low. If it is low to the point where I am not going to = make it to low key, I am going to land straight ahead somewhere. If it = is my home field I am putting on the train tracks which run parallel to = the runway and right next to it, KWHP while praying for no train. = It is very much a part of my process to work the trim and flaps at the = same time after I put the gear down. I image in this situation I will = not be putting the gear down, I have always planned on belly up for this = scenario. The sudden loss of power is going to demand a pitch change so = I am sure I will be doing that instinctively. Will I be running the = flaps down at the same time, who knows. Perhaps if I remember to. It is = likely because that is what I always do when I get ready to land, run the flaps and trim at the same time while = looking out the left window at my flap position. I also make trim = changes in flight all the time like when I level off. I am not running = the flaps then so who knows. I might forget and end up landing fast. = With the heart pumping and the stress it is hard to say for certain what = would happen. I do know this, there is a certain small chance that I = wouldn't have time to or would forget to put the flaps down for landing = in this situation. I also know that there is a certain small chance that = I take off and departure gives me some instruction that requires me to = look at my map, I am stillchoosing the I don't want departure to = distract me and cause me to fixate at the wrong time causing my plane to = be pointed nose up at 1000 agl because they distracted me while I was = cleaning my flaps up. Ohh, I have been distracted this way in the past = while taking off. It is hard to always ignore the controllers. They tend to switch things on you right when you check in = with them sometimes requiring you to write things = down.
 
Matt
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