X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:22:30 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-ye0-f182.google.com ([209.85.213.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6390832 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:46:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.182; envelope-from=pjdmiller@gmail.com Received: by mail-ye0-f182.google.com with SMTP id m12so248304yen.27 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:46:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.23.101 with SMTP id u65mr19402830yhu.218.1374770761291; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:46:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.144] ([68.202.59.203]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j63sm59222851yhh.17.2013.07.25.09.46.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Potential Problem-Engine Vibration References: From: Paul Miller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-A319958F-57DB-4F6B-9ECB-678635B22296 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B146) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:46:00 -0400 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-A319958F-57DB-4F6B-9ECB-678635B22296 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, my reply that you refer to was a direct answer to Charlie's question an= d that's why I quoted him. Yes, there are 550 engines that run smooth with a= hartzell. That's a data point. We are not running 78 inch diameter blades= however. I have a change in vibration magnitude with rpm so there's anothe= r datapoint. Paul On 2013-07-25, at 12:10, Bob Rickard wrote: >=20 > The key point that this thread is about is a vibration that is NOT "normal= ". The key indicator is a change in the magnitude of the vibration with a c= hange in RPM. There are enough of you out there that have responded to me d= irectly that state you have made all attempts at correcting the "normal" vib= ration issues, ruling out alternators, cowl interference, motor mounts, dyna= mic balancing, crank counter weights, etc. Those things are normal and woul= d not likely cause damage to the crank prop flange if left untreated. The p= roblem we are discussing is related to the prop/engine combination. =20 >=20 > We have confirmed reports of 550 motors being smooth with McCauley props, A= erocomposite Props and MT props, to answer Charley's question below. Howeve= r, NO ONE has come forward and said "My 550 engine/Hartzell Scimitar 78" pro= p combination is smooth". I would be very interested if someone out there c= an say that. To the contrary, I have received multiple responses from 4 dif= ferent aircraft types that say "I have dealt with this for a long time and c= an't fix it". Now what? >=20 > Bob R >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Paul Miller wrote: >=20 >> Ed Martin's legacy is smooth. Mine has had a lot of annoying vibes as yo= u describe but virtually all have been removed with lots of cowling interfer= ence fixes and plug change. Many pilots forget the alternator can be a wick= ed source of vibration and it is almost in the same plane as the prop. >>=20 >> The problems I had originally were in that freq range and visible at the w= ingtip also. >>=20 >> Paul >>=20 >> On 2013-07-25, at 9:54, Charles Brown wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Has anyone definitely flown a vibration-free IO-550 Lancair (or TSIO-550= ) with *any* propeller? And by vibration-free, I mean it is free of low-fre= quency 10-20Hz stuff, not the normal noise of flying. What I'm wondering is= ... is it the 550, making such vibration with *any* propeller? >>>=20 >>> Charley Brown >>> Legacy RG 280hr >>=20 >> -- >> For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.ht= ml >=20 > >=20 > Bob Rickard > President, Rickard Consulting Group, Inc. > r.rickard@rcginc-us.com >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-A319958F-57DB-4F6B-9ECB-678635B22296 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob, my reply that you refer to was a d= irect answer to Charlie's question and that's why I quoted him.  Yes, t= here are 550 engines that run smooth with a hartzell. That's a data point. &= nbsp; We are not running 78 inch diameter blades however.  I have a cha= nge in vibration magnitude with rpm so there's another datapoint.
=
Paul

On 2013-07-25, at 12:10, Bob Rickard <r.rickard@rcginc-us.com> wrote:

The key point that t= his thread is about is a vibration that is NOT "normal".  The key indic= ator is a change in the magnitude of the vibration with a change in RPM. &nb= sp;There are enough of you out there that have responded to me directly that= state you have made all attempts at correcting the "normal" vibration issue= s, ruling out alternators, cowl interference, motor mounts, dynamic balancin= g, crank counter weights, etc.  Those things are normal and would not l= ikely cause damage to the crank prop flange if left untreated.  The pro= blem we are discussing is related to the prop/engine combination.  

We have confirmed reports of 550 motors being smooth w= ith McCauley props, Aerocomposite Props and MT props, to answer Charley's qu= estion below.  However, NO ONE has come forward and said "My 550 engine= /Hartzell Scimitar 78" prop combination is smooth".  I would be very in= terested if someone out there can say that.  To the contrary, I have re= ceived multiple responses from 4 different aircraft types that say "I have d= ealt with this for a long time and can't fix it".  Now what?
=
Bob R



=
On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com> wrote:

Ed Martin's legacy is smooth. &nb= sp;Mine has had a lot of annoying vibes as you describe but virtually all ha= ve been removed with lots of cowling interference fixes and plug change. &nb= sp;Many pilots forget the alternator can be a wicked source of vibration and= it is almost in the same plane as the prop.

The problems I had origi= nally were in that freq range and visible at the wingtip also.

Paul
On 2013-07-25, at 9:54, Charles Brown <browncc1@verizon.net> wrote:


Has anyone definitely flown a vibration-free IO-550 Lancair (or TSI= O-550) with *any* propeller?  And by vibration-free, I mean it is free o= f low-frequency 10-20Hz stuff, not the normal noise of flying.  What I'= m wondering is...  is it the 550, making such vibration with *any* prop= eller?

Charley Brown
Legacy RG  280hr



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