X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6340954 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:04:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.181; envelope-from=billhogarty@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 16so6714743obc.26 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:03:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=GVpJ+g32NmxHPhbLY56pooZeu4hRclr7F53n7sfHMKU=; b=Q/Kqgu+iGGeCp0pl7dB5LyULbGrdt3HW496qUeEpASopBA14pYTI/PD7T0MZBiJTb4 8kA0p/olBckhDCkNisXSp5EVShIQfxrOG1Yes0eDJVt3EJoWDWQcse8wrdeqOmD/FrsK l0lpxDV/dwzlOwi1VWp1fK96ooGVUYjDwTvq+nvrZ23flQqinsrOmsCCZpnK8xpzBSt4 7CV7pb021oS1qkBJyrY7SKsuAy8pqJOYc5eSCMbyjY3xFGEhglNwSLjOYXNpKpghkFIR 5JYjmm5PJxAkCPW69JiHFcUoQ9O5u4SCSc4TajHgWEeH7vtTupIdXZUx9Np7RW6meW3H ds1g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.44.168 with SMTP id f8mr3607001oem.133.1371701023371; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.191.100 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:03:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:03:43 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Nose gear check 4P update From: "William A. Hogarty" To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113343d23c791904df8e0847 --001a113343d23c791904df8e0847 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello John: Yes, I think that we are talking about the same item Each nose gear door is actuated by linkage (rods) that attach to the door using a small "L" shaped aluminum bracket. It seem that if the bracket were a little larger, the pivot point (where the rod attaches) could be moved and thus apply a little more pressure to hold the doors closed in flight.. Any thoughts???? Bill H. On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:29 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi again Bill, > > Is the bracket you are referring to the horn that the push rod is attached > to? > > I'm not quite sure what the bracket is. > > John > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jun 18, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "William A. Hogarty" > wrote: > > Hello John: > > I bought two replacement aluminum doors from Lancair; primarily because > aluminum hinges are still in the plane and they have always worked well. > Dropping the doors was a simple matter of pulling the hinge pins. > > I am interested in enlarging the brackets that activate the doors because > both of the connecting rods ended up having a slight curve after about 180 > hours so there is considerable pressure on those rods. In addition, the > right door bracket had a noticeable bend in it that I would like to > resolve. If you have any specs on your brackets, I sure would like to see > them > > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:32 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Bill. >> >> i made my nose gear doors out of graphite on my LIVP and used Carbinge to >> hinge them. Have about 70 hours on the plane now with no glitches. Very >> happy with the results. Can share design parameters if you are interested. >> >> >> I also made graphite angle bar to hang them, but that might be overkill >> with your engine already being mounted. >> >> Best, >> John Barrett >> N31VP >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> On Jun 18, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "William A. Hogarty" >> wrote: >> >> Ralf: >> >> I am making up a new set of nose gear doors (don't ask).. >> >> If you fabricate a new door bracket, please let me know the how and >> what. And how they work. (maybe Brent has a pattern??? >> >> Appreciate the help. >> >> Regards >> >> Bill Hogarty >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Chris Zavatson > > wrote: >> >>> Ralf, >>> The Outback gear doors on the 320/360 suffered a similar fate. The >>> original actuation scheme couldn't handle the air loads. A small pressure >>> differential over a large area generates a lot of force. >>> Chris >>> >>> Chris Zavatson >>> N91CZ >>> 360std >>> www.N91CZ.net >>> >>> *From:* "bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM" >>> *To:* lml@lancaironline.net >>> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 11:08 AM >>> *Subject:* [LML] Nose gear check 4P update >>> >>> Dear subscribers, >>> >>> I did the nose gear check as described Jack Morgan and Charlie Kohler >>> earlier. Everything went very smooth and the plane did not move at all >>> even when the weight on the tail and chucks were removed. >>> >>> I cycled the gear 5 times and every time the nose gear door shut >>> perfect. This leads to the conclusion that my door shuts perfect after >>> take-off and reopens due to air-pressure like Brent Regan describes >>> below. >>> >>> On the in-flight picture you can see how the door gets pushed open. This >>> was at a pretty low speed - approx. 140...150 kts indicated - I assume >>> it will get worse if I go faster. >>> >>> I attached pics of my nose gear linkage versus Brent Regan's improved >>> nose gear linkage - if yours looks more like mine you probably have the >>> same problem. >>> >>> Since there was so much concern about my jacks I attached a pic of the >>> gear check. My jacks work reliable and the plane sits sound on them. >>> They just don't have enough stroke. That's why I have little platforms >>> that I slide in and out. The set up works reliable - it is just a little >>> more work.... >>> >>> Ralf >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Brent Regan [mailto:brent@regandesigns.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:37 AM >>> To: Lancair Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: Nose gear check 4P >>> >>> Ralf writes: >>> "A friend took a picture of the belly of my airplane in flight with the >>> gear up. It looked to me that the nose gear door was not completely >>> closed." >>> >>> The original factory nose gear door linkage geometry provided too low a >>> mechanical advantage to keep the doors closed against the internal >>> cowling air pressure during flight. On the door bracket, you need to >>> fabricate a new part with the link ball hole rotated about the hinge >>> centerline towards the AC center. This will give a larger effective >>> moment arm when the doors are closed. A slight kink in the linkage arms >>> is required. See pictures attached. >>> >>> BTW, Selecting Gear Up while on the wheels is an incredibly bad idea. >>> Buy a decent pair of jacks NOW. Also, do NOT strap the spinner to lift >>> the nose. Remove the top cowl and strap the propshaft. >>> >>> Regards >>> Bren Regan >>> -- >>> For archives and unsub >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >>> >>> >>> >> > --001a113343d23c791904df8e0847 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello John:
=A0
Yes, I think that= we are talking about the same item
=A0
Each nose gear = door is actuated by linkage (rods) that attach to=A0the door using a small = "L" shaped aluminum=A0bracket.
=A0
It seem that if the bracket were a little larger, the pi= vot point=A0(where the rod attaches)=A0could be moved and thus apply=A0 a l= ittle more pressure to hold the doors closed in flight..
=A0
Any thoughts????=A0 Bill H.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0


On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:29 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.= com> wrote:
Hi again Bill,
<= div>
Is the bracket you are referring to the horn that the pu= sh rod is attached to? =A0

I'm not quite sure what the bracket is.
<= br>
John

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 18, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "William A. Hogarty&= quot; <billho= garty@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello John:<= /div>
=A0
I bought two replacement aluminum doors from Lancai= r;=A0 primarily because aluminum hinges are still in the plane and they hav= e always worked well.=A0 Dropping the doors was a simple matter of pulling = the hinge pins.
=A0
I am interested in enlarging the brackets that activate = the doors because both of the connecting rods ended up having a slight curv= e after about 180 hours so there is considerable pressure on those rods.=A0= In addition, the right door bracket had a noticeable bend in it that I wou= ld like to resolve.=A0 If you have any specs on your brackets, I sure would= like to see them


On Tue,= Jun 18, 2013 at 9:32 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> w= rote:
Hello Bill. =A0

i made my nose gear doors out of graphite on my LIVP and used Carbinge to h= inge them. =A0Have about 70 hours on the plane now with no glitches. =A0Ver= y happy with the results. =A0Can share design parameters if you are interes= ted. =A0

I also made graphite angle bar to hang them, but that m= ight be overkill with your engine already being mounted.

Best,
John Barrett
N31VP

Sent from my iPa= d


On Jun 18, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "Willi= am A. Hogarty" <billhogarty@gmail.com> wrote:

Ralf:
=A0
I am making up a n= ew set of nose gear doors (don't ask)..
=A0
If you= fabricate a new door bracket, please let me know the how and what.=A0 And = how they work. (maybe Brent has a pattern???
=A0
Appreciate the help.
=A0
Regards
=A0
Bill Hogarty
=A0


On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:45 = AM, Chris Zavatson <chris_zavatson@yahoo.com> wrote:<= br>
Ralf,
The Outback gear doors on th= e 320/360 suffered a similar fate.=A0=A0 The original actuation scheme coul= dn't handle the air loads.=A0 A small pressure differential over a larg= e area generates a lot of force.
Chris
=A0
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std

From: "bronnenmeier@GROBSYS= TEMS.COM" <bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 11:08 AMSubject: [LML] Nose gear c= heck 4P update

Dear subscribers,

I did the nose gear check as described Ja= ck Morgan and Charlie Kohler
earlier. Everything went very smooth and th= e plane did not move at all
even when the weight on the tail and chucks = were removed.

I cycled the gear 5 times and every time the nose gear door shut
per= fect. This leads to the conclusion that my door shuts perfect after
take= -off and reopens due to air-pressure like Brent Regan describes
below.
On the in-flight picture you can see how the door gets pushed open. Thi= s
was at a pretty low speed - approx.=A0 140...150 kts indicated - I ass= ume
it will get worse if I go faster.

I attached pics of my nose = gear linkage versus Brent Regan's improved
nose gear linkage - if yours looks more like mine you probably have the
= same problem.

Since there was so much concern about my jacks I attac= hed a pic of the
gear check. My jacks work reliable and the plane sits sound on them.
They just don't have eno= ugh stroke. That's why I have little platforms
that I slide in and o= ut. The set up works reliable - it is just a little
more work....

Ralf



-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Regan [ma= ilto:brent@rega= ndesigns.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:37 AM
To: Lancai= r Mailing List
Subject: Re: Nose gear check 4P

Ralf writes:
"A friend took = a picture of the belly of my airplane in flight with the
gear up. It loo= ked to me that the nose gear door was not completely
closed."

The original factory nose gear door linkage geometry provided too low a=
mechanical advantage to keep the doors closed against the internal
c= owling air pressure during flight. On the door bracket, you need to
fabricate a new part with the link ball hole rotated about the hinge
centerline towards the AC center. This will give a larg= er effective
moment arm when the doors are closed. A slight kink in the = linkage arms
is required. See pictures attached.

BTW, Selecting G= ear Up while on the wheels is an incredibly bad idea.
Buy a decent pair of jacks NOW. Also, do NOT strap the spinner to lift
t= he nose. Remove the top cowl and strap the propshaft.

Regards
Bre= n Regan
--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.n= et:81/lists/lml/List.html





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