X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 18:41:31 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc3-s2.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.140] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6327432 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 01:26:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.190.140; envelope-from=peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Received: from BAY152-W21 ([65.54.190.187]) by bay0-omc3-s2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 15 Jun 2013 22:26:22 -0700 X-TMN: [zYrGyqY6+UR3xmhlCHPuxErnEDl4XH4O] X-Originating-Email: [peterpawaviation@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_a3bf7e8f-ba85-4337-9b26-e4601b408d12_" From: PETER WILLIAMS X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: VGs X-Original-Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 01:26:22 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jun 2013 05:26:22.0934 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A151760:01CE6A52] --_a3bf7e8f-ba85-4337-9b26-e4601b408d12_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BILL here is the link for the VGs http://www.pnwaero.com/Lancair.htm i will be out of the country for a couple of weeks so the earliest for phot= os will be beginning of July i put my VGs at 10% of chord=3B we tried 8% at the aileron which did not m= ake a difference. someone mentioned putting them just in the area of the ailerons=3B to produ= ce better stall conditions=3B don't know about that peter Date: Thu=2C 30 May 2013 09:06:46 -0700 From: billhogarty@gmail.com To: lml@lancaironline.net=3B peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics Peter: First I've heard of VG installed on a IV-P. Can you give us some de= tails on source. Details on the installation and mabe a photo. Thanks=2CBi= ll Hogarty=0A= On Thu=2C May 30=2C 2013 at 5:20 AM=2C PETER WILLIAMS wrote: =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= hi there Boeing built several LNC4=2C but they enlarged the horizontal surface and r= edesigned the airfoil maybe they have some expertise in aircraft design =0A= Installed=0A= an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on the 4P and had a=0A= 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed=3B highly recommend it to everyone. =0A= rediculoudly cheap. $289.00 with a template and shipping.=20 peter To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed=2C 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400 =0A= From: cwfmd@yahoo.com Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics =0A= Does anyone expect my mention of 'How about watching your AOAs! to avoid st= all-departures (and subsequent) spins. ?? Good Point Terrence=2C I accidentally left that out=2C focusing on the SD i= nstead... =0A= I don't like to fly a Lancair unless it has AOA installed. But I'm an old = Navy test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA awareness(orientation?) and c= ontrol authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced control authority=2C to paraph= rase Bert=2C in the tail=2C "there is not enough" surface. =0A= We have an integrated systems project in our university course=2C specula= ting on how we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wire control = interface. Could the mishap scenarios be over come by limiting certain cont= rol inputs? For example commanding too much angle of attack might limit bac= k stick range or even add power and=0A= optimal climb if low altitude? What if instant antispin control override kicks in=2C like the stick pushe= r in the F-104 or the Eclipse? What might the tradeoff be in aerodynamic im= provements vs fly by wire? The problem is flight testing=2C because the fle= et is not large enough to support this development and testing. =0A= We used to attack the identified problem=2C such as the F-14 flat spin(se= e TopGun movie) or the SD issue in the F-16 "lawn dart" =2C as follows: 1. Identify the problem=2C=20 2. educate the pilots=2C=20 3. modify the training (I bagged lots of T-2 flt time=2C as a SPin/OutaCont= rol flt instructor)=2C=20 =0A= 4. modify the software or display/control etc=2C but only lastly =2C 5.modify the hardware changing the airframe. These are=2C in sequence of expenses=2C which increase(exponentially)=2C w= ith each level. With the Lancair=2C we are always in the first 2 or 3 leve= ls=2C because of funding=2C it is hard to reach=0A= farther. The greatest challenge is to reach those new Lancair enthusiasts= =2C who have not yet been introduced to 1=2C 2 =2C & 3 ! =0A= = --_a3bf7e8f-ba85-4337-9b26-e4601b408d12_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BILL

here is the link for the VGs

http://www.pnwaero.com/Lancair.htm

i will be out of the country for a couple of weeks so t= he earliest for photos will be beginning of July

i put my VGs at 10% of chord=3B we tried 8% at th= e aileron =3B which did not make a difference.

someone mentioned putting them = just in the area of the ailerons=3B to produce better stall= conditions=3B don't know about that

peter

Date: Thu=2C= 30 May 2013 09:06:46 -0700
From: billhogarty@gmail.com
To: lml@lanca= ironline.net=3B peterpawaviation@hotmail.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair = Aerobatics

Peter:
 =3B
First I've heard of VG installed on a IV-P. =3B Can you give us some d= etails on source. =3B Details on the installation and mabe a photo.
 =3B
Thanks=2CBill Hogarty
=0A=


O= n Thu=2C May 30=2C 2013 at 5:20 AM=2C PETER WILLIAMS <= =3Bpeterp= awaviation@hotmail.com>=3B wrote:
=0A=
=0A= =0A= =0A=
hi there
Boeing<= /font> built several LNC4=2C but they enlarged the horizontal surface and redesigned the airfoil
 =3B =  =3B =3B =3B  =3B  =3B  =3Bmaybe they have some expertise in aircraft design
=0A= Installed=0A= an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on the 4P and had a=0A= 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed=3B highly recommend it to everyone. =0A= rediculoudly cheap. $289.00 with a= template and shipping.

peter

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date= : Wed=2C 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400
=0A= From: cwfmd@yahoo.com<= /a>
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics

=0A= Does anyone expect my mention of
 =3B'How about watching your AOAs!= to avoid stall-departures (and subsequent) spins. ??

G= ood Point Terrence=2C I accidentally left that out=2C focusing on the SD in= stead...
=0A=  =3BI don't like to fly a Lancair unless it has AOA instal= led. But I'm an old Navy test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA awareness= (orientation?) and control authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced control au= thority=2C to paraphrase Bert=2C in the tail=2C "there is not enough" surfa= ce.
=0A=  =3B We have an integrated systems project in our university course=2C = speculating on how we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wire c= ontrol interface. Could the mishap scenarios be over come by limiting certa= in control inputs? For example commanding too much angle of attack might li= mit back stick range or even add power and=0A= optimal climb if low altitude?
 =3BWhat if instant antispin control= override kicks in=2C like the stick pusher in the F-104 or the Eclipse? Wh= at might the tradeoff be in aerodynamic improvements vs fly by wire? The pr= oblem is flight testing=2C because the fleet is not large enough to support= this development and testing.
=0A=  =3B We used to attack the identified problem=2C such as the F-14 flat = spin(see TopGun movie) or the SD issue in the F-16 "lawn dart" =2C as follo= ws:
1. Identify the problem=2C
2. educate the pilots=2C
3. modif= y the training (I bagged lots of T-2 flt time=2C as a SPin/OutaControl flt = instructor)=2C
=0A= 4. modify the software or display/control etc=2C =3B =3B but only l= astly =2C
5.modify the hardware changing the airframe.
 =3BThese = are=2C in sequence of expenses=2C which increase(exponentially)=2C with eac= h level. =3B With the Lancair=2C we are always in the first 2 or 3 leve= ls=2C because of funding=2C it is hard to reach=0A= farther. =3B The greatest challenge is to reach those new Lancair enth= usiasts=2C who have not yet been introduced to 1=2C 2 =2C &=3B 3 =3B= !
=0A=

= --_a3bf7e8f-ba85-4337-9b26-e4601b408d12_--