X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 23:41:41 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm18-vm4.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.217.219] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6322238 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:34:09 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.217.219; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.137.12.174] by nm18.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2013 22:33:33 -0000 Received: from [208.71.42.205] by tm13.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2013 22:33:33 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2013 22:33:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 369521.47391.bm@smtp216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: RDD8ahcVM1mObK9lx.Gdmrq_IFv.KDeSVoqC5RiZm4kKYPK zCeUxA9zZKsUtDRVKcIQXC6aHPuAgwwrc.UnWzTPIo1ClTJ.98YY.pDNAwET d0tDKuavg_VTkFF.ZXBXb6hnmo7IVtT616wxs6QGdjSYQwha4O4pdRUjBWM. UTX8kbtJ35MyJ2hUJf7dF2NR3k0xjVKRNPg5EZ6zMZ60v1OSVSnbiyfXvQqb xhWex.HQUDG3BB9akww8imxQWUaJbcbuVul3MpDAye.gwh0eoS5jSDr62KNC Nwa5Rlu4ssl33hZfa3JTkvPcsm_Upo_iCT.58zrYPy1BMS2eUFlM.598t6.S TMHQA_mCA8vwu5ulpJJbrwcygdt7WDGKSaBHf_jKeYPsvB7lC8QOEt_TmMjG MOU0M9_5EvA6m3jzenJqPllKJwWaI798GQYh3OWFrBM4qt2nJTUifjsv0RMK qUL8HCT0.Wf42BkaYXf6ieibDsreFnf354gZ0_HTRoPk_BYpC8zJa08qhL0k WCg.3OTsFJ3QbT0CG99P7k1yYgFXbxTn5oSi803K9rQiJq3e4eEc9GrOnL9S hE7w1Cg-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 076hgjCswBC.G6e0vm7vgvZ9JJ0zmeBo_Oyw X-Rocket-Received: from [192.168.1.64] (chris_zavatson@108.82.46.190 with ) by smtp216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2013 22:33:33 +0000 UTC Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Groundtesting problems References: From: Chris Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B42B6EF0-4EC4-4952-A3D5-1655A22A39CC X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: <7426A33F-6EF8-40F0-8F96-29D98DAC39A3@yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:33:32 -0700 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-B42B6EF0-4EC4-4952-A3D5-1655A22A39CC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Peter, Let me see if I can help confuse the issue a little further.... Taxi tests are not really the best way to evaluate the cooling system. As S= cott states below, the lack of cooling air will let things get hot regardles= s of your set-up. To your original question regarding cooler placement, I have found the locat= ion forward of the #2 cylinder to work quite well. I use a SW10599 which ha= s very good heat transfer at a fairly low pressure drop. I even have the ex= it necked down to about 5 sqin. I have however heard of other cooler makes/= models being more problematic. Many details will determine the final outcome. Chris Zavatson N91CZ 360std www.N91CZ.com Sent from my spiffy iPad On Jun 12, 2013, at 2:18 PM, Sky2high@aol.com wrote: > Peter, > =20 > I did not mean to imply your cooler installation will not contribute to th= e problem - in flight you will expect high speed air to make an almost ninet= y degree turn. The assumption is that the upper cowl pressure is greater th= an the lower cowl pressure to force sufficient air through the cooler. That i= s even while the air is being tripped over the vanes at an almost 90 degree a= ngle. At slower speeds (fast taxi tests), neither the pressure differential= nor the turning of the air is as much of a problem. > =20 > Grayhawk > =20 > In a message dated 6/12/2013 8:36:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, air.peter= @googlemail.com writes: > Grayhawk, >=20 > =20 >=20 > I will give the rudder a chance next time. Can just not imagine that it wi= ll have such a big effect but =E2=80=93 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I read out of your words that there is nothing wrong with my cooler instal= lation in front of cylinder 2. I did not check engine timing =E2=80=93 again= =E2=80=93 I did it some time ago during building process, assuming that it w= ill not change by itself=E2=80=A6. But again =E2=80=93 good tip. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Peter, D-EPSO, 360 MK II >=20 > =20 >=20 > Von: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] Im Auftrag von Sk= y2high@aol.com > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Juni 2013 15:47 > An: lml@lancaironline.net > Betreff: [LML] Re: Groundtesting problems >=20 > =20 >=20 > Peter, >=20 > =20 >=20 > 300 series Lancairs have a very strong left turning tendency (P-factor, we= ather vaning, etc.). Even the engine mount has the engine canted to the rig= ht to compensate. The small rudder does not have much effect below 40 KIAS.= Yes, you must tap the right brake often on a take off roll when below 40 K= IAS and power must be applied slowly until enough speed is gained for the ru= dder to be of some help. It is useful to lighten the load on the nose gear a= s you speed up. >=20 > =20 >=20 > There is not much cooling at the lower speeds used in taxi tests. Also, n= ew engines generate more heat from internal friction before break-in. I don= 't have enough information to comment on your cooling system, but 200F (abou= t 100C) oil temps and close to 400F (about 200C) cyl head temps are not that= surprising depending on conditions of hi power, slow speed tests. Have you= checked engine timing? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Grayhawk >=20 > =20 >=20 > In a message dated 6/11/2013 6:37:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time, air.peter= @googlemail.com writes: >=20 > Hello friends, >=20 > I am in the pre-first-flight phase and suffer some problems. I would > appreciate valuable hints to the following issues: >=20 > - being on the runway and pushing the throttle forward I have to constantl= y > brake on the right side not to leave the runway. Is that "normal" or up to= > which extend is the latter tolerable ? > - I have my oil-cooler in front of Zylinder 2 facing downwards. I have a > plenum to seal the incoming air. I placed a small cover over the cooler to= > guide the air downwards for cooling purposes. The remaining air is going t= he > Zylinders 2 and 4. Unfortunately CHTs are still very high (>200 C) and > oil-temperature is after going the runway 4 times up and down (1,5 Km) mor= e > than 100 C. This is definitely to much. Outside temps are appr. 13 C. What= I > am doing wrong? Any experience with forward placed coolers ? Recommendatio= ns > ? >=20 > Thanks a lot in advance, >=20 > Peter > LNC 360 MKII, O360 F1A6, D-EPSO >=20 >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.htm= l --Apple-Mail-B42B6EF0-4EC4-4952-A3D5-1655A22A39CC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Peter,
Let me se= e if I can help confuse the issue a little further....
Taxi tests a= re not really the best way to evaluate the cooling system.  As Scott st= ates below, the lack of cooling air will let things get hot regardless of yo= ur set-up.
To your original question regarding cooler placement, I= have found the location forward of the #2 cylinder to work quite well. &nbs= p;I use a SW10599 which has very good heat transfer at a fairly low pressure= drop.  I even have the exit necked down to about 5 sqin.  I have h= owever heard of other cooler makes/models being more problematic.
= Many details will determine the final outcome.

Chri= s Zavatson
N91CZ
360std

Sent from my spiffy iPad

On Jun 12, 2013, at 2:18 PM, Sky2h= igh@aol.com wrote:

Peter,
 
I did not mean to imply your cooler installation will not=20 contribute to the problem - in flight you will expect high speed air to make= an=20 almost ninety degree turn.  The assumption is that the upper cowl=20= pressure is greater than the lower cowl pressure to force sufficient air thr= ough=20 the cooler. That is even while the air is being tripped over the vanes at an= =20 almost 90 degree angle.  At slower speeds (fast taxi tests), neither th= e=20 pressure differential nor the turning of the air is as much of a problem.
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 6/12/2013 8:36:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 air.peter@googlemail.com wri= tes:

Grayhawk,=20

 

I=20 will give the rudder a chance next time. Can just not imagine that it will= =20 have such a big effect but =E2=80=93

 

I=20 read out of your words that there is nothing wrong with my cooler installa= tion=20 in front of cylinder 2. I did not check engine timing =E2=80=93 again =E2=80= =93 I did it some=20 time ago during building process, assuming that it will not change by itse= lf=E2=80=A6.=20 But again =E2=80=93 good tip.

 

Thanks,

 

Peter,=20 D-EPSO, 360 MK II

 

Von: Lancair Mailing=20 List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] Im Auftrag von=20 Sky2high@aol.com
Gesende= t: Dienstag, 11. Juni 2013=20 15:47
An: lml@lancairon= line.net
Betreff: [LML] Re:=20 Groundtesting problems

 

Peter,

 

300=20 series Lancairs have a very strong left turning tendency (P-factor, weathe= r=20 vaning, etc.).  Even the engine mount has the engine canted to the ri= ght=20 to compensate.  The small rudder does not have much effect below= 40=20 KIAS.  Yes, you must tap the right brake often on a take off roll whe= n=20 below 40 KIAS and power must be applied slowly until enough speed is gaine= d=20 for the rudder to be of some help.  It is useful to lighten the load o= n=20 the nose gear as you speed up.

 

There=20 is not much cooling at the lower speeds used in taxi tests.  Also, ne= w=20 engines generate more heat from internal friction before break-in.  I= =20 don't have enough information to comment on your cooling system, but 200F=20= (about 100C) oil temps and close to 400F (about 200C) cyl head temps are n= ot=20 that surprising depending on conditions of hi power, slow speed=20 tests.  Have you checked engine timing?

 

Grayhawk

 

In a=20 message dated 6/11/2013 6:37:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time, air.= peter@googlemail.com=20 writes:

Hello=20 friends,

I am in the pre-first-flight phase and suffer some probl= ems.=20 I would
appreciate valuable hints to the following issues:

- b= eing=20 on the runway and pushing the throttle forward I have to constantly
b= rake=20 on the right side not to leave the runway. Is that "normal" or up=20 to
which extend is the latter tolerable ?
- I have my oil-cooler i= n=20 front of Zylinder 2 facing downwards. I have a
plenum to seal the=20 incoming air. I placed a small cover over the cooler to
guide the air= =20 downwards for cooling purposes. The remaining air is going the
Zylind= ers=20 2 and 4. Unfortunately CHTs are still very high (>200 C)=20 and
oil-temperature is after going the runway 4 times up and down (1,= 5=20 Km) more
than 100 C. This is definitely to much. Outside temps are ap= pr.=20 13 C. What I
am doing wrong? Any experience with forward placed coole= rs ?=20 Recommendations
?

Thanks a lot in advance,

Peter
LNC= 360=20 MKII, O360 F1A6, D-EPSO


--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81= /lists/lml/List.html

= --Apple-Mail-B42B6EF0-4EC4-4952-A3D5-1655A22A39CC--