Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #65798
From: Frederick Moreno <frederickmoreno@bigpond.com>
Subject: Fw: RE: [LML] Changed subject to Gap Seals
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 09:02:00 +0800
To: Lancair Mail (lml@lancaironline.net) <lml@lancaironline.net>
I put on glider gap seals and now 250 hours later, most are still in place.  My approach: sanded the area where the adhesive hits the paint with 1500 sand paper after having wiped with acetone, heat gun to drive out residual acetone that may have remained, putting down masking tape to prevent sanding out of bounds, and then after applying tapes, repeated passes pushing down hard with my thumbs - time and pressure being assumed necessary to make the adhesive flow into the  tiny scratches.  Not perfect, but seems to last better than experience of others.
 
As for their effect, I assume small potatoes, but it all adds up.
 
Fred 
 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 9/06/2013 12:27:06 AM
Subject: RE: [LML] Changed subject to Gap Seals
 

Danny,

 

I buy my gap seals from “wings and Wheels” – they have also pictures and sketches on their site of how to mount them. My ex co-workers from GROB aircraft used their services (only for the gliders) for many years and were happy with them.

 

Gap seals in general: I saw a speed increase may be of 2 kts at the most – it is something that I question if I would do it again. I can’t take them off again because when I removed old tape the paint came off on some spots.

 

On my 4P gap seals have a very limited life time. I lose one about every 15 – 20 hrs of flight. No big deal – no safety hazard – it is just gone after the flight. I pay attention now that on decent I keep the airspeed from going into the yellow (200kts) too far. If I fool around with the airplane eg. taking dives until I hit red line (270kts) , flying over the runway full throttle and pulling it straight up….. I can almost bet that one seal is missing.

 

I pay really good attention that all the surfaces are clean and free of old glue, I apply high pressure when initially applying the tape, I tried to use a heat gun, I rough the surface of the mylar (usually the double sided tape is still on the wing), I make sure that the inner tapes are still there and sealed. In short: I am a person that works usually very detailed and I put a lot of effort in applying the seals but I can’t get them to stay on for good…..

 

In my opinion these seals are made for lower speeds than what we see in our planes. If someone can give me some ideas of what other products / procedures to use I would be very happy….

 

These are just my thoughts and there might be a better solution out there.

 

Ralf

 

From: Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 12:52 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Changed subject to Gap Seals

 

Do an internet search for "glider gap seals" as a start.

 

Grayhawk

 

In a message dated 6/7/2013 9:43:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, danny@n107sd.com writes:

Speaking of gap seals, any recommendations on where to get them, how to attach them, whether to put them on a painted surface or sand it down?

 

 

Danny

LNC2-360 Mk-II

Nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool.

 

 

 

From: Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 9:41 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: VORTEX GENERATORS

 

Chris,

 

Dittos.  Didn't Bob Belshe say he eventually retained the vortex generator only forward of the ailerons with better low speed control with them and less reduction in cruise speed.  If ya add gap seals ya can get the cruise speed back and even increase control surface aukthority..............

 

Grayhawk

 

In a message dated 6/7/2013 7:12:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, chris_zavatson@yahoo.com writes:

Being somewhat interested in aircraft efficiency, two quotes from the VG website jumped out at me.

 

On the Lancair page:

" A 10 knot reduction in the stall speed; much better low speed handling and no reduction in the cruise speed."

Then on the FAQ page:

" At maximum power, you may experience a 0-4 mph reduction, but this depends on the particular aircraft. At normal cruising speed there is no noticeable reduction. "

 

For me maximum power typically is cruise power.  The speed loss will tend to be on the higher side in a low drag airframe.

 

VGs locally energize the boundary layer to keep the flow attached.  This takes energy. Unfortunately a nice laminar flow section is turned into a partially turbulent flow wing. Everything is a trade-off.

 

A previous link on the LML to Bob Belshe's 235 VG mod also reported a reduction in cruise speed of a couple knots.

 

Here is another link to a flight test report of a Bonanza with a VG upgrade.

http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_cruise_wide_screen.pdf


Chris Zavatson

N91CZ

360std


Sent from my spiffy iPad


On Jun 4, 2013, at 3:55 AM, Rob Murawski <rob@robmurawski.com> wrote:

Nice info on the VG's!  I've been contemplating whether to install the extended wingtips on my 360 MkII, now it looks like I have another option to reduce the stall speed.  Assuming I even need that.

 

This doesn't make the decision-making process any easier.

 

-Rob

Lancair 360MkII

15% Complete

Pittsburgh, PA

 

From: PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Lancair Mailing List <lml@lancaironline.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:42 AM
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [LML] VORTEX GENERATORS

 

HI THERE

here is the link for vortex generator kits for Lancair aircraft

http://www.pnwaero.com/Lancair.htm

i was very happy with the company and with the results

peter williams

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