X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2013 12:27:06 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6314156 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 08 Jun 2013 00:33:22 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.175; envelope-from=weinsweigd@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f175.google.com with SMTP id xn12so7542485obc.20 for ; Fri, 07 Jun 2013 21:32:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.60.52.15 with SMTP id p15mr1157403oeo.87.1370665966633; Fri, 07 Jun 2013 21:32:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.18] (dynamic-acs-24-112-177-176.zoominternet.net. [24.112.177.176]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b1sm3347632oeo.8.2013.06.07.21.32.45 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Jun 2013 21:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Propjet belly tank From: David Weinsweig Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-24DAA084-A4F1-4D73-8E45-72B4E96A18E9 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 00:32:43 -0400 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-24DAA084-A4F1-4D73-8E45-72B4E96A18E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The standard belly tank supplied by Lancair for the Propjet was approximatel= y 15 gallons. The optional large belly tank was approximately 35 gallons(min= e holds 34). I'm sure that a good composite shop could enlarge the belly ta= nk or change the fuel system all together which has been advocated by some b= ut that opens a whole new conversation thread. David From: Bob Rickard Sender: Subject: Re: [LML] Propjet Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 10:43:06 -0400 To: lml@lancaironline.net How hard would it be to add a belly tank to the Propjet on sale? Bob R On Jun 7, 2013, at 7:11 AM, David Weinsweig wrote: > Hi Peter, >=20 > Although the Propjet obviously burns more fuel than a piston, your estimat= es are a bit high. I fully agree that I would prefer more than 125 gallons.=20= >=20 > However, 50 gallons for the first hour is high. My Propjet does burn 50+ g= ph on takeoff and at low altitude. However at 10-15 minutes to climb to crui= se altitude with fuel burn at FL220-260 being 29-33 gph, range is somewhat m= ore than you would expect. On descent near flight idle fuel burn can get dow= n into the low 20's.=20 >=20 > As an example, I have flown nonstop from Key West to Huntington, WV with a= headwind in 3:30 using all of my 112 gallons in the wings but still leaving= me 34 gallons in my belly tank. This averages out to 32 gph.=20 >=20 > On multiple flights I have estimated that I have right around 4:30 of flig= ht time until dry starting with full fuel ( though I generally use my belly t= ank as my full hour of reserves and never get close to dry). I have 146 usa= ble gallons. Thus with 125 gallons one would estimate approximately 3 hours f= light time plus legal Ifr reserves.=20 >=20 > I know nothing about the plane listed in your post but range would not be a= s bad as you suggest though I agree long range tanks are very desirable in a= turbine.=20 >=20 > And yes you can climb at 4000 fpm(and descend at that too), cruise around 3= 00 ktas and be airborne or stop once wheels down in 1000' feet. No shock co= oling. And boy does Jet A smell good, and the sound, and the cool factor!!!!= >=20 > Wow what a plane! >=20 > Fly Safe, >=20 > David Weinsweig > N750DW Propjet 303 hours >=20 >=20 > From: PETER WILLIAMS > Sender: > Subject: TURBINE 4P BACK FOR SALE $299,000 > Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 16:44:16 -0400 > To: lml@lancaironline.net >=20 >=20 >=20 > Recently there was a Lancair 4 Turbine for sale at $250,000; it sold=20 >=20 > and now is back for on the market at $299,000 >=20 > http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Experimental_Kit_Aircraft/Lanca= ir/PropJet__4_for_sale_68010.html >=20 > the biggest shortcoming is that it has only 125 gallons of fuel. figure 5= 0 gallons the first hour and 35 gallons the second hour. that leaves you jus= t over an hour fuel if you land at the two hour point.=20 > you say an hour fuel is excessive to land with, supposing that brings you t= o 10,000 feet, then your "cruise" hour of fuel is only 40 minutes. >=20 > but, hey you can climb at 4,000 feet a minute. >=20 > peter >=20 Bob Rickard President, Rickard Consulting Group, Inc. r.rickard@rcginc-us.com Sent from my iPad= --Apple-Mail-24DAA084-A4F1-4D73-8E45-72B4E96A18E9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
The standard be= lly tank supplied by Lancair for the Propjet was approximately 15 gallons. T= he optional large belly tank was approximately 35 gallons(mine holds 34). &n= bsp;I'm sure that a good composite shop could enlarge the belly tank or chan= ge the fuel system all together which has been advocated by some but that op= ens a whole new conversation thread.

David


From:Bob Rick= ard <r.rickard@rcginc-us.com>
Sender:<marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject:Re: [LML] Propjet=
Date:Fri, 07 Jun 2013 10:43:06 -0400
To:lml@lancaironline.net<= /td>


3D"Undecoded
Ho= w hard would it be to add a belly tank to the Propjet on sale?

Bob R




=
On Jun 7, 2013, at 7:11 AM, David Weinsweig <weinsweigd@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Peter,

Although the Propjet obviously burns= more fuel than a piston, your estimates are a bit high. I fully agree that I= would prefer more than 125 gallons. 

However, 50 gallons for the first hour is hi= gh. My Propjet does burn 50+ gph on takeoff and at low altitude. However at 1= 0-15 minutes to climb to cruise altitude with fuel burn at FL220-260 being 2= 9-33 gph, range is somewhat more than you would expect. On descent near flig= ht idle fuel burn can get down into the low 20's. 

As an example, I have flown nons= top from Key West to Huntington, WV with a headwind in 3:30 using all of my 1= 12 gallons in the wings but still leaving me  34 gallons in my belly ta= nk.  This averages out to 32 gph. 

On multiple flights I have estimated that I= have right around 4:30 of flight time until dry starting with full fuel ( t= hough I generally use my belly tank as my full hour of reserves and never ge= t close to dry).  I have 146 usable gallons. Thus with 125 gallons one w= ould estimate approximately 3 hours flight time plus legal Ifr reserves.&nbs= p;

<= /font>
I know n= othing about the plane listed in your post but range would not be as bad as y= ou suggest though I agree long range tanks are very desirable in a turbine.&= nbsp;
And y= es you can climb at 4000 fpm(and descend at that too), cruise around 300 kta= s and be airborne or stop once wheels down in 1000' feet.  No shock coo= ling. And boy does Jet A smell good, and the sound, and the cool factor!!!!<= /font>

Wow what a p= lane!
Fly S= afe,
David W= einsweig
N750DW Propjet 303 hours


=
From:PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation@hotmail.com>
Sender:<marv@lancaironline.net><= /td>
<= span style=3D"-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertica= l-spacing: 0px;">Subject:= T= URBINE 4P BACK FOR SALE $299,000
Date:Thu, 06 Jun 2013 16:44:16 -0400
To:lml@lancaironline.net


3D"Undecoded
Recently ther= e was a Lancair 4 Turbine for sale at $250,000; it sold 

and now= is back for on the market at $299,000

http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Experimental_Kit_Aircraf= t/Lancair/PropJet__4_for_sale_68010.html

the biggest shortcoming i= s that it has only 125 gallons of fuel.  figure 50 gallons the first ho= ur and 35 gallons the second hour. that leaves you just over an hour fuel if= you land at the two hour point. 
you say an hour fuel is excessive t= o land with, supposing that brings you to 10,000 feet, then your "cruise" ho= ur of fuel is only 40 minutes.

but, hey you can climb at 4,000 feet a= minute.

peter

<= /div>

<= img height=3D"78" width=3D"200" id=3D"b4d88a1e-6b2c-4de9-a090-8aa6cb0319b0" a= pple-width=3D"yes" apple-height=3D"yes" src=3D"http://mail.lancair.net:81/li= sts/lml/Message/65490-02-01-R/44972CD8-B1BA-45F5-8EB0-009D3716F0AC" style=3D= "border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; b= order-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">

Bob Rickard
President, Rickard Consulting Group, Inc.
r.rickard@rcginc-us.com


Sent from my= iPad
= --Apple-Mail-24DAA084-A4F1-4D73-8E45-72B4E96A18E9--