Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #65224
From: John Bohn <johnb@bohn-tech.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: Operations Above FL250 and Service Ceiling
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 08:03:06 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>

Giffen,

This is great information to have….I’m glad the first thing I did (even before I trained with one of the best- Charlie Kohler) was the high altitude training in Tulsa.  Part of the training was to go up to altitude and experience the affects…which I greatly appreciate and have had to use twice due to hoses coming loose at flight level.  I can say for me anything above FL180 and above is dangerous and your mask should be at the ready.

Do you own and fly a Lancair? 

 

John C. Bohn
email johnb@bohn-tech.com
Direct (Cell) +1 503.887.2933

 

From: Giffen Marr [mailto:gamarr@charter.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 2:07 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Operations Above FL250 and Service Ceiling

 

 

Lets clarify some some items being discussed in this forum. One issue is operating above FL250. Your time of consciousness is extremely short in the event of a pressurization failure. Have you had the training require by FAR 61.31. Where is your Oxygen Mask? For operations above FL250, FAR 61.31(g) covers the requirements for the pilot, which are as follows:

(g) Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable of operating at high altitudes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft (an aircraft that has a service ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above 25,000 feet MSL), unless that person has received and logged ground training from an authorized instructor and obtained an endorsement in the person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who certifies the person has satisfactorily accomplished the ground training. The ground training must include at least the following subjects:

(i) High-altitude aerodynamics and meteorology;

(ii) Respiration;

(iii) Effects, symptoms, and causes of hypoxia and any other high-altitude sickness;

(iv) Duration of consciousness without supplemental oxygen;

(v) Effects of prolonged usage of supplemental oxygen;

(vi) Causes and effects of gas expansion and gas bubble formation;

(vii) Preventive measures for eliminating gas expansion, gas bubble formation, and high-altitude sickness;

(viii) Physical phenomena and incidents of decompression; and

(ix) Any other physiological aspects of high-altitude flight.

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft unless that person has received and logged training from an authorized instructor in a pressurized aircraft, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a pressurized aircraft, and obtained an endorsement in the person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a pressurized aircraft. The flight training must include at least the following subjects:

(i) Normal cruise flight operations while operating above 25,000 feet MSL;

(ii) Proper emergency procedures for simulated rapid decompression without actually depressurizing the aircraft; and

(iii) Emergency descent procedures.

(3) The training and endorsement required by paragraphs (g)(1) and (g)(2) of this section are not required if that person can document satisfactory accomplishment of any of the following in a pressurized aircraft, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a pressurized aircraft:

(i) Serving as pilot in command before April 15, 1991;

(ii) Completing a pilot proficiency check for a pilot certificate or rating before April 15, 1991;

(iii) Completing an official pilot-in-command check conducted by the military services of the United States; or

(iv) Completing a pilot-in-command proficiency check under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter conducted by the Administrator or by an approved pilot check airman.

Remember that the airframe is designed for a 5psi pressure differential and tested by Lancair to a somewhat higher number as a safety margin. Our aircraft are subjected to repeated pressure cycles, which can lead to potential failures, particularly if we have not built to the same or better margins then what Lancair tested. We have experienced several window failures and I believe an airframe failure, where the instrument panel ripped a hole in the fuselage because the panel was rigidly attached to the airframe. 

 

Service Ceiling

 

The service ceiling is the maximum usable altitude of an aircraft. Specifically, it is the density altitude at which flying in a clean configuration, at the best rate of climb airspeed for that altitude and with all engines operating and producing maximum continuous power, will produce a given rate of climb (usually 100 feet per minute climb or 30 meters per minute,[1] and 500 feet per minute climb for jet airplanes). Margin to stall at service ceiling is 1.5g.

 

At the service ceiling, your maneuvering capability is limited, your at max continuous power and have a limited bank angle available above stall.

 

 

Always look at the big picture and be careful out there!

 

Giff Marr

IV-P N229GM

 

 

 

 

Subscribe (FEED) Subscribe (DIGEST) Subscribe (INDEX) Unsubscribe Mail to Listmaster