X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:07:33 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm37-vm6.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.216.253] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6038530 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:08:07 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.216.253; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.137.12.191] by nm37.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2013 14:07:31 -0000 Received: from [98.136.185.197] by tm12.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2013 14:07:31 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp106-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2013 14:07:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 832218.7862.bm@smtp106-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: ItOneGIVM1mRwysbRi0x8XyFGu8eDh2ycmdTTZerLvd4dEk 0v4tJnO_hSOBO5B49KNIov57mZV27fd5yY7BGx.YvIcTlQbtOjSd3116wqv3 D4g1.g2C8roQmnKtl1mLzEuAe3LJ3HzHY_x.G_0kD5L6p2mT0XcC0wA9V_lz PE5oKpxytjfeuh49MTGICXIu6OrQR5rtIuNnqZwF_zICX1s3lQ5AaQ8CEVxv _J9Zws5RGEJsTIKVyHjGsfyGBK6TQ_diBNf9M6ccVmN7xdhj8gB61pih4BGF Rb7TplKiUx5cgIG_i5v1X0XAiR3Onyb1W4UetoYBkbCmsFpZ1OctWpLz72.P lTHwme0vtjrvN8CuAcuOT9t0PbbWai1MvTVBGHpoULPCxmpI1de3OTFVEB7o HN8NWao5CikrKg42tkabivaIYiIlRfj51lp99tUr5Kj2OjFVyel4yQIz3k5o ypLymSShsSPNX4qouQOedhDmsbg11z5BJUgBrujD3D0zgZu389JT6sGDypI_ kOpdkMu6mV1wi8p4- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 076hgjCswBC.G6e0vm7vgvZ9JJ0zmeBo_Oyw Received: from [10.125.255.169] (chris_zavatson@166.137.114.244 with xymcookie) by smtp106-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2013 06:07:30 -0800 PST Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure References: From: Chris Zavatston Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D7765C4E-5CF1-4CCB-9D1F-F6FE13B68BE7 X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9A405) In-Reply-To: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:07:09 -0800 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-D7765C4E-5CF1-4CCB-9D1F-F6FE13B68BE7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 And just for clarification.... My comment regarding VEP switches was specific to the hydraulic pressure swi= tches. I forgot that the pitot pressure switch was also made by VEP. The h= ydraulic switch replacements are something around $70. Chris Zavatson N91CZ 360std 1,400 hrs www.N91CZ.net On Jan 30, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Charles Brown wrote: > Just went through that problem on my Legacy; VEP switch prevented retracti= on; checked out perfectly on the ground, regularly malfunctioned if flight. = I polled the LML and got several great inputs; selected the TCW ASW-1, avai= lable for $45 from Aircraft Spruce (vs $380 quote from Lancair for the VEP).= It's much smaller, lighter, easy to calibrate, and so far, is working perf= ectly. >=20 >=20 > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:30 AM, Gary Edwards wrote: >=20 > Rob, > =20 > Most likely the original VEP switches will be internally corroided and not= usuable if they have never been put into service. I went thru that situati= on years ago (1990's) during the extended build time. It cost a fortune to h= ave the VEP company even just test them them, more than a new set from Lanca= ir would cost for the new style. And the new style is install and fly, wher= eas the VEP's require adjustments during new flight hours, a big inconvenien= ce. > =20 > Gary Edwards > LNC2=20 > =20 > From: Chris Zavatson > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:28 AM > Subject: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure >=20 > Rob, > Lancair carries a new type that is much more reliable. I forget the brand= name. > =20 > Chris Zavatson > N91CZ > 360std 1,400 hrs > http://www.n91cz.net/ >=20 > =20 > From: Stevens Family > To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:40 PM > Subject: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure >=20 > Chris, > =20 > I am interested in your comment about the =E2=80=9COld VEP pressure switch= es=E2=80=9D. The 360 kit I am building comes with those pressure switches. W= hat do you recommend we should use in place of them? > =20 > Thanks again. > =20 > Rob Stevens > Perth, > Western Australia. > =20 > =20 > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Chr= is Zavatson > Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2013 11:56 PM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure > =20 > Scott, > Yep, the failure modes are completely unrelated to each other. > There is a second failure-to-retract mode. In fact, it is the only one I e= xperienced in my plane. It was with the old VEP pressure switches. They wo= uld stick open on occassion. Then the problem is not too much pressure, it i= s not having any.=20 > Failure to retract can be a bit more serious if in IMC or taking off at hi= gh density altitude. > =20 > The failure to extend can be fixed by simply raising the operating pressur= e of the low side circuit. > I have looked at pumps spanning the 95 to 2011 manufacturing time frame. T= he only one that would lock up on the ground had spool return springs. Sinc= e the 70g rattle-your-spool controversy appeared, I have also been measuring= the spool resistance in every pump I get my hands on. -haven't found an ou= tliers yet, but I will keep looking. > =20 > Chris Zavatson > N91CZ > 360std 1,400hrs > http://www.n91cz.net/ > =20 > From: "Sky2high@aol.com" > To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 5:27 AM > Subject: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on Hydraulic Pressure > =20 > Chris, > =20 > While waiting for Wolfgang's answer, some 200/300 series pilots are becomi= ng concerned that they can't get the gear down when needed. First, Lorn's s= econdary problem is that he didn't look for the "gear down and locked" light= s before landing. While the gear down pressure switch saw enough pressure t= o not allow the pump to start, the failure to recognize that the gear was no= t down contributed to the belly in landing. > =20 > To allow people to be more comfortable about the hydro-electric system the= y should be reminded of this > =20 > 1. The failure to RETRACT the gear because of high pressure on both sides i= s a problem because of the safe design. Opening the dump valve doesn't reso= lve the problem because the system is in a static state with the gear down a= nd locked. There are no physical forces able to change the system condition= - no G-maneuvers, no slips or skids, nada. > =20 --Apple-Mail-D7765C4E-5CF1-4CCB-9D1F-F6FE13B68BE7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
And just for clarification= ....
My comment regarding VEP switches was specific to the hydraul= ic pressure switches.  I forgot that the pitot pressure switch was also= made by VEP.  The hydraulic switch replacements are something around $= 70.

Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std= 1,400 hrs
www.N91CZ.net


On Jan 30, 2013, at 10:45 PM, Charles Brown <browncc1@verizon.net> wrote:
<= br>
Just we= nt through that problem on my Legacy; VEP switch prevented retraction; check= ed out perfectly on the ground, regularly malfunctioned if flight.  I p= olled the LML and got several great inputs; selected the TCW ASW-1, availabl= e for $45 from Aircraft Spruce (vs $380 quote from Lancair for the VEP). &nb= sp;It's much smaller, lighter, easy to calibrate, and so far, is working per= fectly.


On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:30 AM, Gary= Edwards wrote:

Rob,
 
Most likely the original VEP switches will be internally corroided and n= ot=20 usuable if they have never been put into service.  I went thru tha= t=20 situation years ago (1990's) during the extended build time.  It cost a= =20 fortune to have the VEP company even just test them them, more than a new se= t=20 from Lancair would cost for the new style.  And the new style is instal= l=20 and fly, whereas the VEP's require adjustments during new flight hours, a bi= g=20 inconvenience.
 
Gary Edwards
LNC2 
 
From: Chris Zavatson <= /div>
To: lml@lancaironline.net <= /div>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5= :28=20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Thermal influenc= e on=20 Hydraulic Pressure

Rob,
Lancair carries a new type that is much more reliable.&nbs= p; I=20 forget the brand name.
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std 1,400 hrs

 
=
<= /div>From:=20 Stevens Family <stevens5@swiftdsl.com.au>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2= 013 6:40=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: T= hermal=20 influence on Hydraulic Pressure

Chris,
 
I=20 am interested in your comment about the =E2=80=9COld VEP pressure switches= =E2=80=9D. The 360=20 kit I am building comes with those pressure switches. What do you recommen= d we=20 should use in place of them?
 
Thanks=20 again.
 
Rob=20 Stevens
Perth,
Western=20 Australia.
 
 
From:=20= Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ch= ris=20 Zavatson
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2013 11:56 PM
To:=20= lml@lancaironline.net
S= ubject: [LML] Re: Thermal influence on=20 Hydraulic Pressure
 
Scott,
<= /div>
Yep, the failure=20 modes are completely unrelated to each other.
There is a second=20= failure-to-retract mode.  In fact, it is the only one I experienced i= n my=20 plane.  It was with the old VEP pressure switches.  They would s= tick=20 open on occassion.  Then the problem is not too much pressure, it is n= ot=20 having any. 
Failure to retract=20= can be a bit more serious if in IMC or taking off at high density=20 altitude.
 
<= /div>
The failure to exten= d=20 can be fixed by simply raising the operating pressure of the low side=20 circuit.
I have looked at=20 pumps spanning the 95 to 2011 manufacturing time frame.  The only one= =20 that would lock up on the ground had spool return springs.  Since the= 70g=20 rattle-your-spool controversy appeared, I have also been measuring the spo= ol=20 resistance in every pump I get my hands on.  -haven't found an=20= outliers yet, but I will keep looking.
 
<= /div>
Chris=20 Zavatson
N91CZ
360std=20 1,400hrs
 
<= /div>
From:= Chr= is,
 
Whi= le=20 waiting for Wolfgang's answer, some 200/300 series pilots are becoming=20 concerned that they can't get the gear down when needed.  First, Lorn= 's=20 secondary problem is that he didn't look for the "gear down and locked" li= ghts=20 before landing.  While the gear down pressure switch saw enough=20= pressure to not allow the pump to start, the failure to recognize tha= t=20 the gear was not down contributed to the belly in landing.
 
To=20= allow people to be more comfortable about the hydro-electric system they=20= should be reminded of this
 
1.=20= The failure to RETRACT the gear because of high pressure on both side= s is=20 a problem because of the safe design.  Opening the dump valve=20= doesn't resolve the problem because the system is in a static state w= ith=20 the gear down and locked.  There are no physical forces able to=20= change the system condition - no G-maneuvers, no slips or skids,=20 nada.
 
= --Apple-Mail-D7765C4E-5CF1-4CCB-9D1F-F6FE13B68BE7--