X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6037799 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:42:31 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.144; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.129]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 79A001C00009F for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:41:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.119] (24-107-65-42.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.65.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id D4DE6E0000DA; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:41:55 -0500 (EST) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9C6D9669-A3C7-46B0-BA04-F1DB5F094D1D Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Accident rate for LOBO members vs non-members Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:41:57 -0600 To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1359596516; bh=U536fBM97nV7WMQTMGEmFmBz2C3jL6eld+ggsab3v+0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=rdlbyaKoXwctBdAKbqFyV06aZ7k11Bv9hVhKju6naKFaswfg8Hq1SxFgKcw8ACBnV wsdE8amQgIE9CzugB/MMsOJsSLfWnTbt/XEESahJ+uKYCrGbklzACEMBpEuiHRFmFt LMWUqHMtjedh1SO1OM3wsGy7GJDh6QtFfDkBepmU= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:443965280:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33815109cbe245f8 X-AOL-IP: 24.107.65.42 --Apple-Mail-9C6D9669-A3C7-46B0-BA04-F1DB5F094D1D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Scott, What Lancair model do you fly? Jeff Sent from my iPad On Jan 30, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Scott E Keighan wr= ote: > George, > I respect your position with respect to the LOBO but I disagree that becau= se I choose not to be a member I am not > making a commitment to being a better pilot. I am a member of the LML amou= nt numerous other organizations. You have no idea whom I am, what I have don= e or what I am doing. I will not get into it here on this forum. Lets just s= ay that I am a professional within the aviation industry ongoing for over 30= years. I have given numerous talks to various organizations with respect to= my profession and interests. >=20 > I will not get into whom I think is a safer or a better pilot or how to ac= hieve that goal. Although I do have my own thoughts on that. >=20 > Scott Keighan >=20 > P.S. I fly IFR and VFR as required in both airplanes and helicopters. I al= so do not have any issues getting insurance or training. >=20 > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:30:58 -0500 > From: gw5@me.com > Subject: [LML] Re: Accident rate for LOBO members vs non-members >=20 > Scott, >=20 > It should be obvious that LOBO is not going to get rich off of $40/yr per m= ember. This rate should be viewed as a great rate for a couple of reasons: >=20 > 1. The tremendous amount of information with regard to building the variou= s models of Lancairs, the depth of aviation experience in aerodynamics and p= ilotage of our Lancairs, and the knowledge base of regulations from those wh= o served in regulatory bodies.=20 >=20 > 2. All of the above plus the commitment of each of us to become better pil= ots whether through proficiency training or increasing our ratings/knowledge= base enables such a body as LOBO to better represent us as whole whether it= s for insurance rates or for potential FAA governance.=20 >=20 > In my opinion, for the cost of 7 gallons or a half hour of flying per year= we are getting a great deal.=20 >=20 > In sum; you won't be a better pilot because you joined LOBO but because yo= u made a comittment to be a better pilot by learning from others and taking t= he step to go beyond the status quo.=20 >=20 > I can't tell you how many pilots that I have talked to that just go bombin= g through MOAs and other high density traffic areas squawking 1200 because t= hey can without talking to anyone. Just because you can doesn't mean it's sm= arter.=20 >=20 > It's fun to fly VFR but having the ability and knowledge to fly IFR in you= r back pocket benefits you and everyone in your plane and the airspace aroun= d you.=20 >=20 > George >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:27, marv@lancair.net wrote: >=20 >=20 > Posted for Scott E Keighan : >=20 > So let me get this right. If I pay you $40 to join the LOBO I will be a=20= > better pilot then a non-LOBO member, cool. > How exactly does that work?=20 > Other then someone getting $40 richer, I don't see it. Is this like a pyra= mid=20 > scam? >=20 > Don't insult non members and get a life. As a matter of fact. If the LOBO i= s=20 > so great, why are you even on the LML? > I think the LOBO members should go to their own blog. I am sure they have=20= > one. > Scott keighan > 905 262 5997 >=20 > [Whoa... lighten up. Since the LML had been operating successfully for a n= umber of years prior to the founding of LOBO and the LML would likely alread= y be in touch with most folks who would be interested in joining and partici= pating in LOBO, an agreement was forged which allowed LOBO to use the LML as= its communications arm. It was a logical decision which would benefit both= entities. Both organizations exist for the benefit of the Lancair communit= y, especially where safety is involved. As for cost... if $40/year is too m= uch to pay to an organization dedicated to your safety and actively working t= o help getting the Lancair fleet insured at better rates then don't join. A= lso, don't participate in their discussions or learn anything from their sha= red knowledge... at least that way you'll get what you paid for. But don't t= hrow stones at folks who are trying to help... that doesn't get us anywhere.= ] > =20 >=20 >=20 > From: colyncase@earthlink.net > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:31:05 -0500 > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: Accident rate for LOBO members vs non-members >=20 > Dico, > That's a good point. That's one reason we would like to get as many Lanc= air=20 > pilots on the LML and into LOBO as possible. It's largely a word of mou= th=20 > process to get let people know about these two resources. Getting the wor= d=20 > out to everyone is one of the "things we can do as a community" to improve= the=20 > situation. =20 > LOBO membership is $40 at www.lancairowners.com. > (Marv would love contributions to keep the LML site going too!) > Colyn > On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Dico Reijers wrote:If the accident rate for=20= > Lancairs is 500x that of commercial aviation... do we have a break down of= =20 > what the rate is of LOBO members vs. Non-members. I would hope that by ju= st=20 > being a LOBO member and reading/learning from this group that the accident= =20 > rate for us is more in line with the 300x experimental or even better than= =20 > that.=20 >=20 > Have we gone through the Lancair accidents to see if the PIC was a LOBO=20= > member. It would be interesting. > -DIco >=20 > --=20 > Regards, >=20 > Dico Reijers >=20 > InternetWorks Ltd. >=20 > 300 University Avenue > Charlottetown > PE, C1A 4M4 >=20 > 902-892-4671 (T) > 888-368-9484 (F) >=20 > www.internetworks.ca > www.apartmentspei.com >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > -- >=20 > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.htm= l --Apple-Mail-9C6D9669-A3C7-46B0-BA04-F1DB5F094D1D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Scott,

What Lancair model do you fly?

Jeff

Se= nt from my iPad

On Jan 30, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Scott E Keighan &= lt;scottekeighan@sympatico.ca<= /a>> wrote:

George,
I respect your position with respect to the LOBO= but I disagree that because I choose not to be a member I am not
making a= commitment to being a better pilot. I am a member of the LML amount numerou= s other organizations. You have no idea whom I am, what I have done or what I= am doing. I will not get into it here on this forum. Lets just say that I a= m a professional within the aviation industry ongoing for over 30 years. I h= ave given numerous talks to various organizations with respect to my profess= ion and interests.

I will not get into whom I think is a safer or a b= etter pilot or how to achieve that goal.  Although I do have my ow= n thoughts on that.

Scott Keighan

P.S. I fly IFR and VFR as re= quired in both airplanes and helicopters. I also do not have any issues gett= ing insurance or training.

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:30:58 -0500From: gw5@me.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Ac= cident rate for LOBO members vs non-members

Scott,
It should be obvious that LOBO is not going to get rich off of $= 40/yr per member. This rate should be viewed as a great rate for a couple of= reasons:

1. The tremendous amount of information w= ith regard to building the various models of Lancairs, the depth of aviation= experience in aerodynamics and pilotage of our Lancairs, and the knowledge b= ase of regulations from those who served in regulatory bodies. 

2. All of the above plus the commitment of each of us to b= ecome better pilots whether through proficiency training or increasing our r= atings/knowledge base enables such a body as LOBO to better represent us as w= hole whether its for insurance rates or for potential FAA governance. <= /div>

In my opinion, for the cost of 7 gallons or a half h= our of flying per year we are getting a great deal. 

In sum; you won't be a better pilot because you joined LOBO but becau= se you made a comittment to be a better pilot by learning from others and ta= king the step to go beyond the status quo. 

I c= an't tell you how many pilots that I have talked to that just go bombing thr= ough MOAs and other high density traffic areas squawking 1200 because they c= an without talking to anyone. Just because you can doesn't mean it's smarter= . 

It's fun to fly VFR but having the ability a= nd knowledge to fly IFR in your back pocket benefits you and everyone in you= r plane and the airspace around you. 

George







Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:27, <= a href=3D"mailto:marv@lancair.net">marv@lancair.net wrote:

=

Posted for Scott E Keighan <scottekeighan@sympatico.ca= >:

So let me get this right. If I pay you $40 to join the LOB= O I will be a
better pilot then a non-LOBO member, cool.
How exactly does that work?
Other then someone gettin= g $40 richer, I don't see it. Is this like a pyramid
scam?

Don't insult non members and get a life. As a matter of fact. If the LOBO is=
so great, why are you even on the LML?
I think the LOBO members should go to their own blog. I am sure they have
one.
Scott keighan<= br> 905 262 5997

[Whoa... lighten up.  Since the LML had been operating successfully for a number of years prior to the founding of LOBO a= nd the LML would likely already be in touch with most folks who would be interested in joining and participating in LOBO, an agreement was forged whi= ch allowed LOBO to use the LML as its communications arm.  It was a logical decision which would benefit both entities.  Both organizations= exist for the benefit of the Lancair community, especially where safety is involved.  As for cost... if $40/year is too much to pay to an organ= ization dedicated to your safety and actively working to help getting  the Lancair fleet insured at better rates then don't join. Also, don't= participate in their discussions or learn anything from their shared knowledge... at least that way you'll get what you paid for. But don't throw= stones at folks who are trying to help... that doesn't get us anywhere.  <marv>    ]
 


From: colyncase@earthlink.net
D= ate: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:31:05 -0500
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Accident rate for= LOBO members vs non-members

Dico,
That's a good point.   That's on= e reason we would like to get as many Lancair
pilots on the LML and into LOBO as possible.    It's largely a word of mouth <= br>process to get let people know about these two resources.  Getting the word
out to everyone is one of the "th= ings we can do as a community" to improve the
situation.  
LOBO membership is $40 at www.lancairowners.com.
(Marv would love contributions t= o keep the LML site going too!)
Colyn
On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Dico Reijers wrote:If the accident rate for
Lancairs i= s 500x that of commercial aviation... do we have a break down of
what the rate is of LOBO members vs. Non-members.  I would hope that by= just
being a LOBO member and reading/learning from this group that the accident
rate for us is more in line with the 300x experimental or e= ven better than
that.

Have we gone through the Lancair accidents to see if the PIC was a LOBO
member.  It would be in= teresting.
-DIco

--
Regards,

Dico Reijers

InternetWorks Ltd.

300 University Avenue
Charlottetown
= PE, C1A 4M4

902-892-4671 (T)
888-368-9484 (F)

www.internetworks.= ca
www.ap= artmentspei.com


   =   

--

For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/Lis=
t.html
= --Apple-Mail-9C6D9669-A3C7-46B0-BA04-F1DB5F094D1D--