X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.63] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6036882 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:15:14 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.63; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=erNNIid3ALF1qVZ+9hq8p6ZTKeDdOrT9JzDevOC0wu0Bg5cy7symjKwKhF64+pSK; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [70.20.32.152] (helo=[192.168.1.24]) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1U0ZN0-0005iY-Qe for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:14:39 -0500 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-198--1000411005 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Accident rate for LOBO members vs non-members Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:14:38 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da940dc8b738e746145beabbee909af7c1eaf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 70.20.32.152 --Apple-Mail-198--1000411005 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Scott, I'm sorry if you feel insulted. I would rather you take it as = an invitation to help us solve a common problem. =20 Nobody said that merely joining LOBO or being on the LML makes you = personally safer as a direct result. What it does do is allow us (the = members) to share our ideas and efforts to improve the situation. I = have learned a ton being on the LML finding out what works/doesn't work = and discovering issues that have saved me a ton of grief. I would say = that has made me a safer pilot. LOBO was organized to go the next step toward safety by establishing a = syllabus and providing face to face events to expand learning = opportunities....similar to other type clubs. It also interacts with = other organizations to promote the interests of the group. As Marv = explains below, it is not "another LML". One of the issues right now is helping 2nd owners find the information = and training they need. The reason for my earlier post was to ask = people on this forum to encourage Lancair pilots that aren't to join LML = and LOBO for that purpose. if you do the math I think you'll find no basis for your allegation that = someone is getting richer. On the contrary, working for LOBO is = generally cash negative. e.g. getting around to FAA meetings, printing = materials etc., administrative support, all cost more money than = membership dues support. Colyn On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:27 AM, = wrote: Posted for Scott E Keighan : So let me get this right. If I pay you $40 to join the LOBO I will be a=20= better pilot then a non-LOBO member, cool. How exactly does that work?=20 Other then someone getting $40 richer, I don't see it. Is this like a = pyramid=20 scam? Don't insult non members and get a life. As a matter of fact. If the = LOBO is=20 so great, why are you even on the LML? I think the LOBO members should go to their own blog. I am sure they = have=20 one. Scott keighan 905 262 5997 [Whoa... lighten up. Since the LML had been operating successfully for = a number of years prior to the founding of LOBO and the LML would likely = already be in touch with most folks who would be interested in joining = and participating in LOBO, an agreement was forged which allowed LOBO to = use the LML as its communications arm. It was a logical decision which = would benefit both entities. Both organizations exist for the benefit = of the Lancair community, especially where safety is involved. As for = cost... if $40/year is too much to pay to an organization dedicated to = your safety and actively working to help getting the Lancair fleet = insured at better rates then don't join. Also, don't participate in = their discussions or learn anything from their shared knowledge... at = least that way you'll get what you paid for. But don't throw stones at = folks who are trying to help... that doesn't get us anywhere. = ] =20 From: colyncase@earthlink.net Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:31:05 -0500 To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Accident rate for LOBO members vs non-members Dico, That's a good point. That's one reason we would like to get as many = Lancair=20 pilots on the LML and into LOBO as possible. It's largely a word of = mouth=20 process to get let people know about these two resources. Getting the = word=20 out to everyone is one of the "things we can do as a community" to = improve the=20 situation. =20 LOBO membership is $40 at www.lancairowners.com. (Marv would love contributions to keep the LML site going too!) Colyn On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Dico Reijers wrote:If the accident rate for=20= Lancairs is 500x that of commercial aviation... do we have a break down = of=20 what the rate is of LOBO members vs. Non-members. I would hope that by = just=20 being a LOBO member and reading/learning from this group that the = accident=20 rate for us is more in line with the 300x experimental or even better = than=20 that.=20 Have we gone through the Lancair accidents to see if the PIC was a LOBO=20= member. It would be interesting. -DIco --=20 Regards, Dico Reijers InternetWorks Ltd. 300 University Avenue Charlottetown PE, C1A 4M4 902-892-4671 (T) 888-368-9484 (F) www.internetworks.ca www.apartmentspei.com =20 -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --Apple-Mail-198--1000411005 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

One of the issues right now is = helping 2nd owners find the information and training they need.   = The reason for my earlier post was to ask people on this forum to = encourage Lancair pilots that aren't to join LML and LOBO for that = purpose.

if you do the math I think you'll find = no basis for your allegation that someone is getting richer.  On = the contrary, working for LOBO is generally cash negative.  e.g. = getting around to FAA meetings, printing materials etc., administrative = support,  all cost more money than membership dues = support.

Colyn

On Jan = 30, 2013, at 8:27 AM, <marv@lancair.net> <marv@lancair.net> = wrote:


Posted for Scott E Keighan <scottekeighan@sympatico.ca&= gt;:

So let me get this right. If I pay you $40 to join the LOBO = I will be a
better pilot then a non-LOBO member, cool.
How exactly does that work?
Other then someone = getting $40 richer, I don't see it. Is this like a pyramid
scam?
=
Don't insult non members and get a life. As a matter of fact. If the = LOBO is
so great, why are you even on the LML?
I think the LOBO = members should go to their own blog. I am sure they have
one.
Scott = keighan
905 262 5997

[Whoa... lighten up.  Since the = LML had been operating successfully for a number of years prior to the founding of = LOBO and the LML would likely already be in touch with most folks who = would be interested in joining and participating in LOBO, an agreement was forged = which allowed LOBO to use the LML as its communications arm.  It = was a logical decision which would benefit both entities.  Both = organizations exist for the benefit of the Lancair community, especially = where safety is involved.  As for cost... if $40/year is too much to pay to an = organization dedicated to your safety and actively working to help = getting  the Lancair fleet insured at better rates then don't join. Also, = don't participate in their discussions or learn anything from their = shared knowledge... at least that way you'll get what you paid for. But don't = throw stones at folks who are trying to help... that doesn't get us = anywhere.  <marv>    ]
 


From: colyncase@earthlink.net
= Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:31:05 -0500
To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Subject: [LML] Re: Accident rate for LOBO members vs non-members

Dico,
That's a good point.   = That's one reason we would like to get as many Lancair
pilots on the = LML and into LOBO as possible.    It's largely a word of = mouth
process to get let people know about these two resources.  Getting the word
out to everyone is one of the = "things we can do as a community" to improve the =
situation.  
LOBO membership is $40 at www.lancairowners.com.
= (Marv would love contributions to keep the LML site going too!)
= Colyn
On Jan 29, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Dico Reijers wrote:If the accident rate for =
Lancairs is 500x that of commercial aviation... do we have a break = down of
what the rate is of LOBO members vs. Non-members.  I would hope = that by just
being a LOBO member and reading/learning from this = group that the accident
rate for us is more in line with the 300x experimental = or even better than
that.

Have we gone through the Lancair accidents to see if the PIC was a LOBO
member.  It would = be interesting.
-DIco

--
Regards,

Dico = Reijers

InternetWorks Ltd.

300 University Avenue
= Charlottetown
PE, C1A 4M4

902-892-4671 (T)
888-368-9484 = (F)

www.internetworks.ca
www.apartmentspei.com

=
   =   

--

For archives and unsub http://mail.=
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