X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:12:04 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman1@gmail.com> Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com ([209.85.160.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6035494 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:00:00 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.44; envelope-from=2thman1@gmail.com Received: by mail-pb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id wz12so455200pbc.17 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:59:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.68.224.227 with SMTP id rf3mr5020677pbc.108.1359485964393; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:59:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman1@gmail.com> Received: from [10.137.119.130] (mobile-166-147-083-235.mycingular.net. [166.147.83.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a4sm9454480paw.21.2013.01.29.10.59.22 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:59:23 -0800 (PST) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-F0EC1458-2391-40D6-8252-03A6FFA01515 X-Original-Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A523) From: John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [LML] clerification on IFR to VFR X-Original-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:59:17 -0800 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List --Apple-Mail-F0EC1458-2391-40D6-8252-03A6FFA01515 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff and other LOBO leaders. Would you please invite Ron to present this at= future LOBO gatherings? What about the next one? Thanks, John Sent from my iPad On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:55 AM, "Ron Galbraith" wrote: > Guys, > All my posts for the past couple of weeks have been rejected, so hopefu= lly this one will get through. There has been some very bad verbage and phr= aseology going on with the discussion on going through a cloud deck to get t= o VFR conditions. The word that has been used by nearly everyone is going I= FR to VFR on top. VFR on top is an IFR clearane and requires a clearance l= imit and route. You cannot deviate from this route even when flying VFR on t= op (OTP as the controller sees it on the radar scope). The only difference b= etween a IFR and VFR on top is that you can select your own VFR altitude and= use the same cloud separation as VFR plus you fly East plus 500 or West plu= s 500'. You cannot however deviate around the clouds without a specific cl= earance to do so, nor change your route without a clearance. =20 > What you are really doing is wanting an IFR clearance to VFR conditions. I= just don't want anyone getting violated and ruining your day. You are cert= ainly under an IFR clearance and will be given a heading or even possibly a c= learance limit (although not necesarrly so if the cloud deck is known such a= s in S. Cal). If you get that clearance, once you are above the clouds and i= n VFR conditions, cancel IFR and either proceed under VFR flight following o= r go on your own. Be very specific as to what you want and be careful of yo= ur phraeology. Don't just report VFR on top. If you do, then the controlle= r will consider you under an IFR clearance and tell you to maintain VFR on t= op. If you decide to change your route and say go through a MOA, that is an= operational error and you will be violated because you cannot under any cir= cumstances go through an active MOA while under an IFR clearance. At at mat= ter of fact, you cannot get within 3 miles of a MOA or Restricted area while= under an IFR clearance. =20 >=20 > On the cruise clearance, you will get that clearance in areas where there i= s high terrain or areas of non radar and to airports where there isn't an IFR= approach. Once you get a cruse clearance, you can go below that altitude a= nd make an approach to an airport, or even climb back to that altitude if yo= u cannot maintain VFR. That altitude would be the minimum IFR altitude the c= ontroller could give you. Also called the MVA, or MIA (minimum vectoring al= titude or Minimum IFR altitude). I could elaborate much much more on this i= f anyone is interested. =20 >=20 > All of these things are in a presentation I've given dozens of times to pi= lot goups If anyone feels the benifits of receiving a presentation that sh= ows you shortcuts in the NAS (National Airspace System), how to expedite you= r flights, how to file, how not to file, what to say and for sure what not t= o say, and even magic words that will get you going on your way much quicker= , you can attend one of the CAART (CAART.aero) or Cirrus weekend training se= ssions. I've volunteered this seminar several times for LOBO events in the p= ast with no interest.=20 >=20 > Ron Galbraith > ATC retired, ATP, CFII > 2200 hrs Lancair > EAA flight advisor > EAA Techical counselor > A&P - IA > =20 --Apple-Mail-F0EC1458-2391-40D6-8252-03A6FFA01515 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeff and other LOBO leaders.  Wou= ld you please invite Ron to present this at future LOBO gatherings?  Wh= at about the next one?

Thanks,
John
Sent from my iPad


On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:55 AM= , "Ron Galbraith" <cfi@instructor.n= et> wrote:

=20 = Guys,
=20    All my posts for the past couple of weeks have been re= jected, so hopefully this one will get through.  There has been some ve= ry bad verbage and phraseology going on with the discussion on going through= a cloud deck to get to VFR conditions.   The word that has been used b= y nearly everyone is going IFR to VFR on top.   VFR on top is an IFR cl= earane and requires a clearance limit and route.  You cannot deviate fr= om this route even when flying VFR on top (OTP as the controller sees it on t= he radar scope).  The only difference between a IFR and VFR on top is t= hat you can select your own VFR altitude and use the same cloud separation a= s VFR plus you fly East plus 500 or West plus 500'.   You cannot howeve= r deviate around the clouds without a specific clearance to do so, nor chang= e your route without a clearance.  
=20 What you are really doing is wanting an IFR clearance to VFR condit= ions.  I just don't want anyone getting violated and ruining your day. &= nbsp;You are certainly under an IFR clearance and will be given a heading or= even possibly a clearance limit (although not necesarrly so if the cloud de= ck is known such as in S. Cal).  If you get that clearance, once you ar= e above the clouds and in VFR conditions, cancel IFR and either proceed unde= r VFR flight following or go on your own.  Be very specific as to what y= ou want and be careful of your phraeology.  Don't just report VFR on to= p.  If you do, then the controller will consider you under an IFR clear= ance and tell you to maintain VFR on top.  If you decide to change your= route and say go through a MOA, that is an operational error and you will b= e violated because you cannot under any circumstances go through an active M= OA while under an IFR clearance.  At at matter of fact, you cannot get w= ithin 3 miles of a MOA or Restricted area while under an IFR clearance. &nbs= p;
=20
=20 On the cruise clearance, you will get that clearance in areas where= there is high terrain or areas of non radar and to airports where there isn= 't an IFR approach.  Once you get a cruse clearance, you can go below t= hat altitude and make an approach to an airport, or even climb back to that a= ltitude if you cannot maintain VFR.  That altitude would be the minimum= IFR altitude the controller could give you.  Also called the MVA, or M= IA (minimum vectoring altitude or Minimum IFR altitude).   I could elab= orate much much more on this if anyone is interested.  
=20
=20 All of these things are in a presentation I've given dozens of time= s to pilot goups   If anyone feels the benifits of receiving a presenta= tion that shows you shortcuts in the NAS (National Airspace System), how to e= xpedite your flights, how to file, how not to file, what to say and for sure= what not to say, and even magic words that will get you going on your way m= uch quicker, you can attend one of the CAART (CAART.aero) or Cirrus weekend t= raining sessions.  I've volunteered this seminar several times for LOBO= events in the past with no interest. 
=20
=20 Ron Galbraith
=20 ATC retired, ATP, CFII
=20 2200 hrs Lancair
=20 EAA flight advisor
=20 EAA Techical counselor
=20 A&P - IA
=20  
=20
= --Apple-Mail-F0EC1458-2391-40D6-8252-03A6FFA01515--