X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6035492 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:59:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.78.142; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.12]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 5C7AF1C000079 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:58:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-mnb004a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mnb004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.106.141]) by mtaomg-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 29C86E000085 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:58:38 -0500 (EST) References: To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: clerification on IFR to VFR In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CFCC69C7E8E170_1B80_16B28E_webmailstg-d02.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37309-STANDARD Received: from 12.110.229.82 by webmailstg-d02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.103.149) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:58:38 -0500 Message-Id: <8CFCC69C7DCFB21-1B80-70D17@webmailstg-d02.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [12.110.229.82] Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:58:38 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1359485918; bh=H3M3keRX8uLeOHFswjIIp9EJAwu8xEfCvUO/W/GG2Nc=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eU7jkozVVIgihsqN0dXulSVN5JsFmNBocpgKYqqFp+H4GLkuDfK6hjsGd75iBfPRm LYiXbm8oSOal1LJn404F1FlzhZ2fziW0YpLSWFBMXLKQX8RkxBXJnEAtg1LBq9w7/+ X2y6ld+XQUnZ2zIviX/SAXfnuIUOJ88U9MT739no= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:477689536:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290c51081bde5568 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CFCC69C7E8E170_1B80_16B28E_webmailstg-d02.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ron, come to Greenville, SC October 2-3-- you are on the schedule for ground sch= ool ;) Jeff I've volunteered this seminar several times for LOBO events in the past wit= h no interest.=20 -----Original Message----- From: Jarrett Johnson To: lml Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 11:11 am Subject: [LML] Re: clerification on IFR to VFR Ron do you ever do this presentation via webinar? I'd be interestedif you d= id. I'm always looking for insight into airspace, improving clearancesand t= raffic flow etc.=20 =20 Sincerely =20 Jarrett Johnson 235-320-55% [and holding] =20 On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:55:22 -0500, Ron Galbraith wrote= : Guys, All my postsfor the past couple of weeks have been rejected, so hopefull= y this one will getthrough. There has been some very bad verbage and phras= eology going on withthe discussion on going through a cloud deck to get to = VFR conditions. Theword that has been used by nearly everyone is going IF= R to VFR on top. VFR ontop is an IFR clearane and requires a clearance li= mit and route. You cannotdeviate from this route even when flying VFR on t= op (OTP as the controller seesit on the radar scope). The only difference = between a IFR and VFR on top isthat you can select your own VFR altitude an= d use the same cloud separation asVFR plus you fly East plus 500 or West pl= us 500'. You cannot however deviatearound the clouds without a specific c= learance to do so, nor change your routewithout a clearance. =20 What you are really doing is wanting an IFR clearanceto VFR conditions. I = just don't want anyone getting violated and ruining yourday. You are certa= inly under an IFR clearance and will be given a heading oreven possibly a c= learance limit (although not necesarrly so if the cloud deck isknown such a= s in S. Cal). If you get that clearance, once you are above theclouds and = in VFR conditions, cancel IFR and either proceed under VFR flightfollowing = or go on your own. Be very specific as to what you want and becareful of y= our phraeology. Don't just report VFR on top. If you do, thenthe controll= er will consider you under an IFR clearance and tell you to maintainVFR on = top. If you decide to change your route and say go through a MOA, thatis a= n operational error and you will be violated because you cannot under anyci= rcumstances go through an active MOA while under an IFR clearance. At atma= tter of fact, you cannot get within 3 miles of a MOA or Restricted area whi= leunder an IFR clearance. =20 On the cruise clearance, you will get thatclearance in areas where there is= high terrain or areas of non radar and toairports where there isn't an IFR= approach. Once you get a cruse clearance,you can go below that altitude a= nd make an approach to an airport, or even climbback to that altitude if yo= u cannot maintain VFR. That altitude would be theminimum IFR altitude the = controller could give you. Also called the MVA, orMIA (minimum vectoring a= ltitude or Minimum IFR altitude). I could elaboratemuch much more on this= if anyone is interested. =20 All of these thingsare in a presentation I've given dozens of times to pilo= t goups If anyonefeels the benifits of receiving a presentation that show= s you shortcuts in theNAS (National Airspace System), how to expedite your = flights, how to file, hownot to file, what to say and for sure what not to = say, and even magic words thatwill get you going on your way much quicker, = you can attend one of the CAART(CAART.aero) or Cirrus weekend training sess= ions. I've volunteered thisseminar several times for LOBO events in the pa= st with no interest.=20 RonGalbraith ATC retired, ATP, CFII 2200 hrs Lancair EAA flightadvisor EAA Techical counselor A&P -IA =20 www.innovention-tech.com =20 ----------MB_8CFCC69C7E8E170_1B80_16B28E_webmailstg-d02.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Ron,
 
come to Greenville, SC October 2-3-- you are on the schedule= for ground school ;)
 
Jeff
I've volunteered this seminar sev= eral times for LOBO events in the past with no=20 interest. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jarrett Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 11:11 am
Subject: [LML] Re: clerification on IFR to VFR

Ron do you ever do this presentation via webinar? I'd be interested if you did. I'm always looking for insight into airspace, improving clearan= ces and traffic flow etc.
 
Sincerely
 
Jarrett Johnson
235-320-55% [and holding]
 


On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:55:22 -0500, Ron Galbraith <cfi@instructor.net> wrote:=
Guys,
   All my posts for the past couple of weeks have been rejected, so hopefully this one will= get through.  There has been some very bad verbage and phraseology going o= n with the discussion on going through a cloud deck to get to VFR conditions. &nbs= p; The word that has been used by nearly everyone is going IFR to VFR on top. &nbs= p; VFR on top is an IFR clearane and requires a clearance limit and route.  You = cannot deviate from this route even when flying VFR on top (OTP as the controller = sees it on the radar scope).  The only difference between a IFR and VFR on = top is that you can select your own VFR altitude and use the same cloud separation= as VFR plus you fly East plus 500 or West plus 500'.   You cannot however= deviate around the clouds without a specific clearance to do so, nor change your ro= ute without a clearance.  
What you are really doing is wanting an IFR clearance to VFR conditions.  I just don't want anyone getting violated and ruin= ing your day.  You are certainly under an IFR clearance and will be given a hea= ding or even possibly a clearance limit (although not necesarrly so if the cloud de= ck is known such as in S. Cal).  If you get that clearance, once you are abo= ve the clouds and in VFR conditions, cancel IFR and either proceed under VFR fligh= t following or go on your own.  Be very specific as to what you want and= be careful of your phraeology.  Don't just report VFR on top.  If yo= u do, then the controller will consider you under an IFR clearance and tell you to mai= ntain VFR on top.  If you decide to change your route and say go through a M= OA, that is an operational error and you will be violated because you cannot under a= ny circumstances go through an active MOA while under an IFR clearance.  = At at matter of fact, you cannot get within 3 miles of a MOA or Restricted area w= hile under an IFR clearance.  

On the cruise clearance, you will get that clearance in areas where there is high terrain or areas of non radar and to airports where there isn't an IFR approach.  Once you get a cruse clea= rance, you can go below that altitude and make an approach to an airport, or even = climb back to that altitude if you cannot maintain VFR.  That altitude would= be the minimum IFR altitude the controller could give you.  Also called the M= VA, or MIA (minimum vectoring altitude or Minimum IFR altitude).   I could el= aborate much much more on this if anyone is interested.  

All of these things are in a presentation I've given dozens of times to pilot goups   If a= nyone feels the benifits of receiving a presentation that shows you shortcuts in = the NAS (National Airspace System), how to expedite your flights, how to file, = how not to file, what to say and for sure what not to say, and even magic words= that will get you going on your way much quicker, you can attend one of the CAAR= T (CAART.aero) or Cirrus weekend training sessions.  I've volunteered th= is seminar several times for LOBO events in the past with no interest. 
Ron Galbraith
ATC retired, ATP, CFII
2200 hrs Lancair
EAA flight advisor
EAA Techical counselor
A&P - IA
 



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