X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:11:10 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail115c7.megamailservers.com ([69.49.98.215] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6035232 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:44:05 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.49.98.215; envelope-from=hjjohnson@sasktel.net X-POP-User: n_authtest.testsitesc7.hostopia.com Received: from mail115c7.megamailservers.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail115c7.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id r0TGhU7C016431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:43:30 -0500 Received: (from webmail@localhost) by mail115c7.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.12.2/Submit) id r0TGhUWg016429 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:43:30 -0500 Received: from static184-169-52-50.wb.rev.accesscomm.ca (static184-169-52-50.wb.rev.accesscomm.ca [184.169.52.50]) by webmail.sasktel.net (Webmail 5.0 V.V.I.) with HTTP for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:43:30 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <20130129104330.3ww868ysw0o4w00k@webmail.sasktel.net> From: "=?utf-8?b?SmFycmV0dCBKb2huc29u?=" X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: Re: [LML] clerification on IFR to VFR X-Original-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:43:30 -0600 X-Priority: 3 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_5abmy4bv68kc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Webmail 6.0 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=1.1 cv=J8CFsI8rs2krE/KcLaK6OfvUp/xZ1CU7ovXaVQIPYQU= c=1 sm=1 a=Q5QLeeme7KwA:10 a=7pJcA8rYX1EA:10 a=YxfxW3ofkq8A:10 a=upxSRtdB2imoQKVfWHPO4g==:17 a=upXHrtAQAAAA:8 a=U1xjuO-R-wFdwMi3iYUA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=f0s5FU26TKIA:10 a=NeB_bmoxAAAA:8 a=vN9f9AKg1I3U6_c_VAcA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=GUzoux3hH84A:10 a=A5IYtM0fZnzSs6Wn:21 a=WkljmVdYkabdwxfqvArNOQ==:117 X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A020203.5107FC33.000E,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 This message is in MIME format. --=_5abmy4bv68kc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format="flowed" Content-Description: Plaintext Version of Message Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron do you ever do this presentation via webinar? I'd be interested if you did. I'm always looking for insight into airspace, improving clearances and traffic flow etc. =C2=A0 Sincerely =C2=A0 Jarrett Johnson 235-320-55% [and holding] =C2=A0 On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:55:22 -0500, Ron Galbraith wrote: Guys, =C2=A0 =C2=A0All my posts for the past couple of weeks have been rejected, = so hopefully this one will get through. =C2=A0There has been some very bad verbage and phraseology going on with the discussion on going through a cloud deck to get to VFR conditions. =C2=A0 The word that has been used by nearly everyone is going IFR to VFR on top. =C2=A0 VFR on top is an IFR clearane and requires a clearance limit and route. =C2=A0You cannot deviate= from this route even when flying VFR on top (OTP as the controller sees it on the radar scope). =C2=A0The only difference between a IFR and VFR on top is that you can select your own VFR altitude and use the same cloud separation as VFR plus you fly East plus 500 or West plus 500'. =C2=A0 You cannot however deviate around the clouds without a specific clearance to do so, nor change your route without a clearance. =C2=A0 What you are really doing is wanting an IFR clearance to VFR conditions. =C2=A0I just don't want anyone getting violated and ruining your day. =C2=A0You are certainly under an IFR clearance and will be given a heading or even possibly a clearance limit (although not necesarrly so if the cloud deck is known such as in S. Cal). =C2=A0If you get that clearance, once you are above the clouds and in VFR conditions, cancel IFR and either proceed under VFR flight following or go on your own. =C2=A0Be very specific as to what you want and be careful of your phraeology. =C2=A0Don't just report VFR on top. =C2=A0If you do, then the controller will consider you under an IFR clearance and tell you to maintain VFR on top. =C2=A0If you decide to change your route and say go through a MOA, that is an operational error and you will be violated because you cannot under any circumstances go through an active MOA while under an IFR clearance. =C2=A0At at matter of fact, you cannot get within 3 miles of a MOA or Restricted area while under an IFR clearance. =C2=A0 On the cruise clearance, you will get that clearance in areas where there is high terrain or areas of non radar and to airports where there isn't an IFR approach. =C2=A0Once you get a cruse clearance, you can go below that altitude and make an approach to an airport, or even climb back to that altitude if you cannot maintain VFR. =C2=A0That altitude would= be the minimum IFR altitude the controller could give you. =C2=A0Also called the MVA, or MIA (minimum vectoring altitude or Minimum IFR altitude). =C2=A0 I could elaborate much much more on this if anyone is interested. =C2=A0 All of these things are in a presentation I've given dozens of times to pilot goups =C2=A0 If anyone feels the benifits of receiving a presentation= that shows you shortcuts in the NAS (National Airspace System), how to expedite your flights, how to file, how not to file, what to say and for sure what not to say, and even magic words that will get you going on your way much quicker, you can attend one of the CAART (CAART.aero) or Cirrus weekend training sessions. =C2=A0I've volunteered this seminar several times for LOBO events in the past with no interest.=C2=A0 Ron Galbraith ATC retired, ATP, CFII 2200 hrs Lancair EAA flight advisor EAA Techical counselor A&P - IA =C2=A0 www.innovention-tech.com --=_5abmy4bv68kc Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="=_5uealf2k2ggs"; start="5ufb3sm8oqgw@webmail.sasktel.net" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message is in MIME format. --=_5uealf2k2ggs Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Description: HTML Version of Message Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-ID: 5ufb3sm8oqgw@webmail.sasktel.net

Ron do you ever do this presentation via webinar? I'd be interes= ted if you did. I'm always looking for insight into airspace, improving clearan= ces and traffic flow etc.

=C2=A0

Sincerely

=C2=A0

Jarrett Johnson

235-320-55% [and holding]

=C2=A0



On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:55:22 -0500, Ron Galbraith <cfi@instructor.net> wrote:

Guys,
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0All my posts for the past couple of weeks have been rejected, so hopefully this one will= get through. =C2=A0There has been some very bad verbage and phraseology going o= n with the discussion on going through a cloud deck to get to VFR conditions. =C2= =A0 The word that has been used by nearly everyone is going IFR to VFR on top. =C2= =A0 VFR on top is an IFR clearane and requires a clearance limit and route. =C2=A0You = cannot deviate from this route even when flying VFR on top (OTP as the controller = sees it on the radar scope). =C2=A0The only difference between a IFR and VFR on = top is that you can select your own VFR altitude and use the same cloud separation= as VFR plus you fly East plus 500 or West plus 500'. =C2=A0 You cannot however= deviate around the clouds without a specific clearance to do so, nor change your ro= ute without a clearance. =C2=A0
What you are really doing is wanting an IFR = clearance to VFR conditions. =C2=A0I just don't want anyone getting violated and ruin= ing your day. =C2=A0You are certainly under an IFR clearance and will be given a hea= ding or even possibly a clearance limit (although not necesarrly so if the cloud de= ck is known such as in S. Cal). =C2=A0If you get that clearance, once you are abo= ve the clouds and in VFR conditions, cancel IFR and either proceed under VFR fligh= t following or go on your own. =C2=A0Be very specific as to what you want and= be careful of your phraeology. =C2=A0Don't just report VFR on top. =C2=A0If yo= u do, then the controller will consider you under an IFR clearance and tell you to mai= ntain VFR on top. =C2=A0If you decide to change your route and say go through a M= OA, that is an operational error and you will be violated because you cannot under a= ny circumstances go through an active MOA while under an IFR clearance. =C2=A0= At at matter of fact, you cannot get within 3 miles of a MOA or Restricted area w= hile under an IFR clearance. =C2=A0

On the cruise clearance, you will get= that clearance in areas where there is high terrain or areas of non radar and to airports where there isn't an IFR approach. =C2=A0Once you get a cruse clea= rance, you can go below that altitude and make an approach to an airport, or even = climb back to that altitude if you cannot maintain VFR. =C2=A0That altitude would= be the minimum IFR altitude the controller could give you. =C2=A0Also called the M= VA, or MIA (minimum vectoring altitude or Minimum IFR altitude). =C2=A0 I could el= aborate much much more on this if anyone is interested. =C2=A0

All of these = things are in a presentation I've given dozens of times to pilot goups =C2=A0 If a= nyone feels the benifits of receiving a presentation that shows you shortcuts in = the NAS (National Airspace System), how to expedite your flights, how to file, = how not to file, what to say and for sure what not to say, and even magic words= that will get you going on your way much quicker, you can attend one of the CAAR= T (CAART.aero) or Cirrus weekend training sessions. =C2=A0I've volunteered th= is seminar several times for LOBO events in the past with no interest.=C2=A0
Ron Galbraith
ATC retired, ATP, CFII
2200 hrs Lancair
EAA flight advisor
EAA Techical counselor
A&P - IA
=C2=A0




www.innovention-tech.com


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