X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:55:22 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net ([74.208.4.200] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6034941 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:55:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.208.4.200; envelope-from=cfi@instructor.net Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([172.19.198.45]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmxus001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MC4yS-1U8y0a0rHk-008nwN for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:54:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 24015 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 2013 14:54:44 -0000 Received: from 69.247.253.135 by rms-us004 with HTTP Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="========GMXBoundary174731359471282316067" X-Original-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:54:42 -0500 From: "Ron Galbraith" X-Original-Message-ID: <20130129145442.174730@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: clerification on IFR to VFR X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Authenticated: #73491717 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 X-GMX-UID: 5Yd1cSUl3zOl2mQGCnAh6cx+IGRvb8DV --========GMXBoundary174731359471282316067 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Guys, All my posts for the past couple of weeks have been rejected, so hopefully this one will get through. There has been some very bad verbage and phraseology going on with the discussion on going through a cloud deck to get to VFR conditions. The word that has been used by nearly everyone is going IFR to VFR on top. VFR on top is an IFR clearane and requires a clearance limit and route. You cannot deviate from this route even when flying VFR on top (OTP as the controller sees it on the radar scope). The only difference between a IFR and VFR on top is that you can select your own VFR altitude and use the same cloud separation as VFR plus you fly East plus 500 or West plus 500'. You cannot however deviate around the clouds without a specific clearance to do so, nor change your route without a clearance. What you are really doing is wanting an IFR clearance to VFR conditions. I just don't want anyone getting violated and ruining your day. You are certainly under an IFR clearance and will be given a heading or even possibly a clearance limit (although not necesarrly so if the cloud deck is known such as in S. Cal). If you get that clearance, once you are above the clouds and in VFR conditions, cancel IFR and either proceed under VFR flight following or go on your own. Be very specific as to what you want and be careful of your phraeology. Don't just report VFR on top. If you do, then the controller will consider you under an IFR clearance and tell you to maintain VFR on top. If you decide to change your route and say go through a MOA, that is an operational error and you will be violated because you cannot under any circumstances go through an active MOA while under an IFR clearance. At at matter of fact, you cannot get within 3 miles of a MOA or Restricted area while under an IFR clearance. On the cruise clearance, you will get that clearance in areas where there is high terrain or areas of non radar and to airports where there isn't an IFR approach. Once you get a cruse clearance, you can go below that altitude and make an approach to an airport, or even climb back to that altitude if you cannot maintain VFR. That altitude would be the minimum IFR altitude the controller could give you. Also called the MVA, or MIA (minimum vectoring altitude or Minimum IFR altitude). I could elaborate much much more on this if anyone is interested. All of these things are in a presentation I've given dozens of times to pilot goups If anyone feels the benifits of receiving a presentation that shows you shortcuts in the NAS (National Airspace System), how to expedite your flights, how to file, how not to file, what to say and for sure what not to say, and even magic words that will get you going on your way much quicker, you can attend one of the CAART (CAART.aero) or Cirrus weekend training sessions. I've volunteered this seminar several times for LOBO events in the past with no interest. Ron Galbraith ATC retired, ATP, CFII 2200 hrs Lancair EAA flight advisor EAA Techical counselor A&P - IA --========GMXBoundary174731359471282316067 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=20 Guys,=20    All my posts for the past couple of weeks have been rejected,= so hopefully this one will get through.  There has been some very bad= verbage and phraseology going on with the discussion on going through a cl= oud deck to get to VFR conditions.   The word that has been used by ne= arly everyone is going IFR to VFR on top.   VFR on top is an IFR clear= ane and requires a clearance limit and route.  You cannot deviate from= this route even when flying VFR on top (OTP as the controller sees it on t= he radar scope).  The only difference between a IFR and VFR on top is = that you can select your own VFR altitude and use the same cloud separation= as VFR plus you fly East plus 500 or West plus 500'.   You cannot how= ever deviate around the clouds without a specific clearance to do so, nor c= hange your route without a clearance.  
=20 What you are really doing is wanting an IFR clearance to VFR conditions. &= nbsp;I just don't want anyone getting violated and ruining your day.  = You are certainly under an IFR clearance and will be given a heading or eve= n possibly a clearance limit (although not necesarrly so if the cloud deck = is known such as in S. Cal).  If you get that clearance, once you are = above the clouds and in VFR conditions, cancel IFR and either proceed under= VFR flight following or go on your own.  Be very specific as to what = you want and be careful of your phraeology.  Don't just report VFR on = top.  If you do, then the controller will consider you under an IFR cl= earance and tell you to maintain VFR on top.  If you decide to change = your route and say go through a MOA, that is an operational error and you w= ill be violated because you cannot under any circumstances go through an ac= tive MOA while under an IFR clearance.  At at matter of fact, you cann= ot get within 3 miles of a MOA or Restricted area while under an IFR cleara= nce.  
=20
=20 On the cruise clearance, you will get that clearance in areas where there = is high terrain or areas of non radar and to airports where there isn't an = IFR approach.  Once you get a cruse clearance, you can go below that a= ltitude and make an approach to an airport, or even climb back to that alti= tude if you cannot maintain VFR.  That altitude would be the minimum I= FR altitude the controller could give you.  Also called the MVA, or MI= A (minimum vectoring altitude or Minimum IFR altitude).   I could elab= orate much much more on this if anyone is interested.  
=20
=20 All of these things are in a presentation I've given dozens of times to pi= lot goups   If anyone feels the benifits of receiving a presentation t= hat shows you shortcuts in the NAS (National Airspace System), how to exped= ite your flights, how to file, how not to file, what to say and for sure wh= at not to say, and even magic words that will get you going on your way muc= h quicker, you can attend one of the CAART (CAART.aero) or Cirrus weekend t= raining sessions.  I've volunteered this seminar several times for LOB= O events in the past with no interest. 
=20
=20 Ron Galbraith
=20 ATC retired, ATP, CFII
=20 2200 hrs Lancair
=20 EAA flight advisor
=20 EAA Techical counselor
=20 A&P - IA
=20 =C2=A0
=20 --========GMXBoundary174731359471282316067--