X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 00:13:34 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-gh0-f174.google.com ([209.85.160.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6034174 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:18:28 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.174; envelope-from=pjdmiller@gmail.com Received: by mail-gh0-f174.google.com with SMTP id g15so542725ghb.33 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:17:53 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.236.85.76 with SMTP id t52mr31448yhe.61.1359429473426; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:17:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from pjdms-mbp.cfl.rr.com ([68.202.59.203]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k63sm12252062yhj.20.2013.01.28.19.17.51 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:17:52 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Insurance Equations From: Paul Miller In-Reply-To: X-Original-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:17:47 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Message-Id: <64681A05-DAFB-43AE-8561-5A3F6039BC5F@gmail.com> References: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) I am not an insurance expert. In another life I was involved with a = bunch of insureds getting screwed with premiums (not aviation) and they = got together, formed an offshore entity, funded future years of premiums = into a pool and provided their own self-insurance for 7 years. = Umbrella limits were covered with re-insurance cheaply and when the = premiums from the insurers eventually dropped, the pool was refunded to = the group making the whole thing a profitable venture. Are you paying too much and did that accident cost you something? I = looked at doing the same thing with TBMs where new owners were getting = dinged 25-40k per year. We looked at 50 owners, 7 years of committed = premiums and an offshore entity to grow the premiums tax free. Stats = told us to expect at least two casualties over the period of coverage. = To minimize risk we would require SIMCOM, 500 hours minimum, 50k = deductible and some other features. The analysis said that if losses = were expected, owners would get back more than half their premiums in = time and those premiums would have been far less than industry norms. = The fleet wasn't big enough yet and premiums did start to come down so = it was shelved. Owners did not like the idea of funding future premiums = even if they were expected to be refunded. Premiums cycle like commodities because risk appetite is a commodity. = At no time, did anyone in the industry spend money to actively reduce = the risk level. They simply adjusted premiums to make the business = viable. Premiums are largely independent of the asset IMO. I tested a = number of insurers on aircraft with widely varying hull values and the = premium was the same. When pushed for an answer, the bottom line = dollars was the goal. If someone took all the IV owners (only IVs as example) and culled them = into a group, determined the risk scenario for next 7 years and = calculated the annual premiums paid versus what a pool size would need = to cover, that would tell you if you're getting a deal or getting = shafted. I suspect premiums are probably a "deal" at the moment based = on the numbers being tossed around here but it wouldn't take a lot of = effort to figure it out. When you do that, you will realize that you = can't stop the riskier IVs from flying, you can only prevent them from = getting into your pool. So, the end result will be the same in terms of = accidents but perhaps one insurer will make money and another may not. = Even if the fleet turned safer this year and next, it would take many = more years of safer stats to make a difference but I really don't think = your premiums are going to be affected by the good news as opposed to = simply better market conditions for risk. My point is that blaming any = individual owner for raising rates is nonsense. Those rates are = already baked into the fleet and the industry and largely determined by = the level of risk appetite in the world and the ability of insurers to = lay off that risk onto third parties. Accidents are always blamed for = premium increases. Nobody gets credit for not having that accident = because the risk is still there. Good to hear some companies are participating in safety. None of the = insurers I worked with ever participated in any programs whatsoever like = that. Paul Legacy Spruce Creek=