X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:18:25 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-ee0-f46.google.com ([74.125.83.46] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6033765 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:14:11 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.83.46; envelope-from=abegaskins@gmail.com Received: by mail-ee0-f46.google.com with SMTP id e49so1511070eek.19 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:13:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.177.1 with SMTP id c1mr55417420eem.8.1359407615325; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:13:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: abegaskins@gmail.com Received: by 10.223.89.11 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:13:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Abe Gaskins X-Original-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:13:15 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: wnViiQtp02Y8yy85LEAeVvWBGlw X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: stalls X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b621e0c04346b04d45fc000 --047d7b621e0c04346b04d45fc000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I respectfully disagree. I snapped hard with an instructor when attempting to only stall. When I stalled the plane I think the electronic turn-and-bank, i.e., Chelton, was not calibrated. No matter if the ball was centered--it wasn't. If you are dead set in stalling a Legacy, I think the advise to do it with an instructor, is good advise. I would do it with an instructor that has done it on many different Legacy's: not just an instructor who has done it in a C-172. The difference might be subtleties in the build of each and every amateur built airplane. For example, if one wing is set as a slightly different angle of attack, what does that do to the stall characteristics? What if the next Legacy built does not have an adequately calibrated turn-and-bank indicator? What is some other builder induced manufacturing technique results in strange stall characteristic I don't guarantee anything when there are no manufacturing standards to which to build. (1200 hour pilot, 50+ hours acrobatics in a Yak 18T . I humbly say that I am not a top gun and I have limitations. I am a Mechanical Engineer which means I have a somewhat analytical approach to things, but does not mean I know shit about airplane design, nor do I have authority to overide any comments regarding stalling a Legacy, nor to I want to. Just want to see safe flying.) Abe Gaskins MGM Industries *Direct line 615-265-2046* *Cell 615-642-2310 * Skype Name: abe.gaskins "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."--*Confucius* "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education"--Mark Twain "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness"--Mark Twain On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Taylor, David wr= ote: > I am in the pro-stall camp with Bill Bradburry. **** > > ** ** > > The Legacy stalls just fine and DOES give some warning. To recover you > simply get the stick forward and put a little rudder in the direction of > the wing drop which you do naturally anyway. Again THE LEGACY IS > COMPLETELY SAFE AND STALLS VERY PREDICTABLY. I have practiced this many > times. It is a little scary the first few times. Get an instructor to > walk you through it if needed.**** > > ** ** > > Incidentally you are not really fully stalling the airplane =96 all you a= re > doing is getting some air separation off one of the wings and it drops (t= he > wing is a safe high performance design and air separates partially and > progressively =96 VERY SAFELY! (It does happen much faster than a 172 fo= r > example.) Just get the stick forward and the wing starts flying again = =96 in > less than a second. VERY SAFE AND PREDICTABLE! (It is not going to snap > into any spins I can guarantee you!)**** > > ** ** > > David Taylor**** > > Legacy Owner**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] *On Behalf Of > *Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* 01-04-13-Fri 12:46 > *To:* lml@lancaironline.net > *Subject:* [LML] Re: stalls**** > > ** ** > > Bill,**** > > ** ** > > Certainly I have stalled my Lancair. With the ball centered, it breaks > straight ahead. When the nose goes thru the horizon, it has stalled and = I > recover. As it approaches the stall, it gets mushy, there is little > burble/buffet warning, but you can definitely tell it is coming because o= f > the mushiness prior.**** > > I needed to stall it so that I could set my AOA and =91Bitchin Betty=92 s= o I > would get a stall warning which I think is needed but not required on > experimental planes**** > > ** ** > > There is no cause for me to talk to Jeff. He thinks one thing, I think > another. He is welcome to his opinion and I plan to stick to mine. I pr= ay > we all fly safe. I see a lot of guys rolling their planes. I have no > intension of rolling mine. In fact, I think they are nuts, but they are > welcome to be nuts if they like. Even more nuts are the guys that fly > their planes into ice, which, I think, is where most of the Lancair death= s > come from, not from stall training. If you get a Lancair iced up, it > doesn=92t matter what you know about stalls or recovery because you are o= n a > one way elevator.**** > > ** ** > > My opinion is you should switch this discussion to ice and away from > stalls. There have been deaths due to stalls, the unfortunate guy at > Oshkosh who got too slow on approach a couple of years ago comes to mind, > but I think many more due to flight into icing..**** > > ** ** > > Everybody fly safe. I am done with the subject.**** > > ** ** > > Bill**** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *Bill Harrelson > *Sent:* Friday, January 04, 2013 1:51 AM > *To:* lml@lancaironline.net > *Subject:* [LML] Re: stalls**** > > ** ** > > Bill,**** > > **** > > Talk to Jeff. I would agree with your stall ideas in just about any > airplanes other than Lancairs. They are different...very different from > other airplane types and very different among samples of the same Lancair > type. Neither of my Lancairs, the 320 or the IV, give any warning at all > before a stall. No buffett, no burble...nothing. If you do a full stall i= n > a IV plan for a break that will be hard and abrupt. Have you actually > stalled your Lancair?**** > > **** > > Please speak to Jeff privately. He has investigated far too many Lancair > accidents to pass on his good advice.**** > > **** > > Bill Harrelson**** > > N5ZQ 320 2,150 hrs**** > > N6ZQ IV 75 hrs.**** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > *From:* vtailjeff@aol.com **** > > *Sent:* Thursday, January 03, 2013 6:03 PM**** > > *To:* lml@lancaironline.net **** > > *Subject:* [LML] Re: stalls**** > > **** > > Bill, **** > > **** > > I respectfully disagree with just about everything you are saying here. > Would you please contact me offline or give me you number so I can call y= ou? > **** > > **** > > Jeff Edwards**** > > 324-308-6719 cell**** > > **** > --047d7b621e0c04346b04d45fc000 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I respectfully disagree. =A0I snapped ha= rd with an=A0instructor when attempting to only stall. =A0 When I stalled t= he plane I think the electronic turn-and-bank, i.e., Chelton, was not calib= rated. =A0No matter if the ball was centered--it wasn't. =A0

=A0If you are dead set in stalling a Legacy,= I think the advise to do it with an=A0instructor, =A0is good advise. =A0I = would do it with an instructor that has done it on many different Legacy= 9;s: not just an=A0instructor=A0who has done it in a C-172. =A0


The difference might be=A0= subtleties in the build of each and every=A0amateur=A0built airplane. =A0Fo= r example, if one wing is set as a slightly different angle of attack, what= does that do to the stall characteristics? What if the next Legacy built d= oes not have an adequately calibrated turn-and-bank indicator? =A0What is s= ome other builder induced manufacturing technique results in strange stall= =A0characteristic=A0 =A0

= I don't=A0guarantee=A0anything when there = are no manufacturing standards to which to build. =A0 =A0

(1200 ho= ur pilot, =A050+ hours=A0acrobatics in a Yak 18T . =A0I humbly say that I a= m not a top gun and I have limitations. =A0 I am a Mechanical Engineer whic= h means I have a somewhat=A0analytical=A0=A0approach to things, but does not mean I know shit about a= irplane design, =A0nor do I have authority to overide any comments regardin= g stalling a Legacy, nor to I want to. =A0 Just want to see safe flying.)

Abe Gaskins
MGM Industries
Direct line 6= 15-265-2046
Cell 615-642-2310 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Skype Name:= abe.gaskins
"Choose a= job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."--<= /span>Confucius=A0
"I have never let my schooling interfere with= my education"--Mark Twain=A0
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigo= try, and narrow-mindedness"--Mark Twain


=A0


On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Taylor,= David <dtaylor@crescentpark.com> wrote:

I am in the pro-stall camp with Bill Bradburry= .=A0

=A0<= /p>

The Legacy stalls just= fine and DOES give some warning.=A0 To recover you simply get the stick fo= rward and put a little rudder in the direction of the wing drop which you d= o naturally anyway.=A0 Again THE LEGACY IS COMPLETELY SAFE AND STALLS VERY = PREDICTABLY.=A0 I have practiced this many times.=A0 It is a little scary t= he first few times.=A0 Get an=A0 instructor to walk you through it if neede= d.

=A0<= /p>

Incidentally you are n= ot really fully stalling the airplane =96 all you are doing is getting some= air separation off one of the wings and it drops (the wing is a safe high = performance design and air separates partially and progressively =96 VERY S= AFELY!=A0 (It does happen much faster than a 172 for example.)=A0 Just get = the stick forward and the wing starts flying again =96 in less than a secon= d.=A0 VERY SAFE AND PREDICTABLE!=A0 (It is not going to snap into any spins= I can guarantee you!)

=A0<= /p>

David Taylor=

Legacy Owner

=A0=

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Brad= burry
Sent: 01-04-13-Fri 12:46
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: = [LML] Re: stalls

=A0

Bill,

=

=A0

Certainly I have stalled my La= ncair.=A0 With the ball centered, it breaks straight ahead.=A0 When the nos= e goes thru the horizon, it has stalled and I recover.=A0 As it approaches = the stall, it gets mushy, there is little burble/buffet warning, but you ca= n definitely tell it is coming because of the mushiness prior.

I needed to stall it so that I= could set my AOA and =91Bitchin Betty=92 so I would get a stall warning wh= ich I think is needed but not required on experimental planes=

=A0

There is no cause for me to talk= to Jeff.=A0 He thinks one thing, I think another.=A0 He is welcome to his = opinion and I plan to stick to mine.=A0 I pray we all fly safe.=A0 I see a = lot of guys rolling their planes.=A0 I have no intension of rolling mine.= =A0 In fact, I think they are nuts, but they are welcome to be nuts if they= like.=A0 Even more nuts are the guys that fly their planes into ice, which= , I think, is where most of the Lancair deaths come from, not from stall tr= aining.=A0 If you get a Lancair iced up, it doesn=92t matter what you know = about stalls or recovery because you are on a one way elevator.

=A0

My opinion is you should switch = this discussion to ice and away from stalls.=A0 There have been deaths due = to stalls, the unfortunate guy at Oshkosh who got too slow on approach a co= uple of years ago comes to mind, but I think many more due to flight into i= cing..

=A0

Everybody fly safe. I am done wi= th the subject.

=A0

Bill

=

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironlin= e.net] On Behalf Of Bill Harrelson
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 1:51 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: stalls

=A0

Bill,=

=A0<= /p>

Talk to Jeff. I would agree with your st= all ideas in just about any airplanes other than Lancairs. They are differe= nt...very different from other airplane types and very different among samp= les of the same Lancair type. Neither of my Lancairs, the 320 or the IV, gi= ve any warning at all before a stall. No buffett, no burble...nothing. If y= ou do a full stall in a IV plan for a break that will be hard and abrupt. H= ave you actually stalled your Lancair?

=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please speak to Jeff privately. He has investigated = far too many Lancair accidents to pass on his good advice.

=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bill Harrelson

N5ZQ 320 2,150 hrs<= /p>

N6ZQ=A0 IV=A0 75 hrs.

=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0

=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0

=A0

<= div>

=A0

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se= rif"">From: vtailjeff@aol.com

Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 6:03 PM

Subject: [LML] Re: stalls=

=A0

Bill,

=A0

I respectfully disagree with just abou= t everything you are saying here. Would you please contact me offline or gi= ve me you number so I can call you?

=A0

Jeff Edwards

324-308-6719 cell

=A0


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