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Just a suggestion to theLNC4 guys: why don;t you dudes get together and finance a wind tunnel survey of the pitching and yawing moments through the AOA range? Then fix it.Has Boeing or NASA Langley already done that? terrence On Jan 26, 2013, at 1:07 AM, peter williams wrote: HI THERE
THE OSTRICH HAS ITS HEAD IN THE SAND
it seems everyone is avoiding the issue here with this loss of airplane and pilot.
there is really only one clue at this point; a witness says that the plane was rotating when it came out the clouds and descended into the ground.
i dont pretend to know what happened without the radar track, with the speed readouts.
A SCENARIO THAT FITS THE DATA WE HAVE SO FAR
stalling a 4P is serious business.
MAYBE DISORIENTATION; MAYBE AN AUTOPILOT MALFUNCTION; MAYBE UNEXPECTED ICING. MAYBE A TEMPORARY LOSS OF POWER all of which could cause a stall.
imagine what it would be like to be IFR and stall a Lancair 4/4P/turbine. Not Fun. OK,
so here you are. nose pointing straight down. you look over at the airspeed and you see 100 knots (flying speed right???--- wrong, and maybe wrong) do you have an AOA? it would tell you if you have lift back on the wings...OH, by the way, did your Gyro(s) tumble. do you have the ability to cage the Gyro?? or is it self righting. OH and how fast does that happen. and 100 knots is a silly low number and 200 knots is more likely within ten seconds. STRAIGHT DOWN. What's that? 41 seconds to the ground OR 20,000 feet per minute straight down.
(remember that the average 4P stalls and rotates 90-120 degrees and points straight down)
SO YOU THINK
ah, stall recovery...add power. well a little power? when that doesnt work more power. HOW MUCH RIGHT RUDDER DID YOU ADD? BETTER BE A LOT. remember the turbine engine puts out 1,950 foot pounds of torque v. the 550 foot pound of torque of the piston engine. even at idle, the turbine is putting considerable torque. My suspicion is a TORQUE ROLL and still in a stalled mode. YOW. (sorta like a Snap Roll we have all seen at Oshkosh; a snap roll is an accelerated Stall. YES STALL)
so you have twenty seconds at most to learn how to do stall recovery in IFR conditions.
BOEING BUILD LANCAIRS
when Boeing built three 4P turbine aircraft for their own purposes; (likely a fast chase plane) they found the tail surfaces unsuitable for the purpose. (remember the airplane was designed for 350 HP not 750HP) Boeing redesigned the tail feathers including using a thicker airfoil for the horizontal surface.
SO IN THE OPINION OF THE PROS AT BOEING, THE REAR SURFACES WERE INADEQUATE FOR THE PURPOSE
STALLS
personally i believe that every pilot of these Lancair(s) be required to see the stall of their airplane. sit in the plane and let a pro do the job. maybe if you are brave, with the "test pilot" next to you try the recovery yourself. do it under the hood?? YOW. does your gyro tumble. YOW again.
it is scary just to contemplate.
at what altitude did you do your approach to stall training? 8,500 feet, 12.500 feet. there is a reason.
personally, i would be disinclined to ride in a 4 Turbine. i'm not smart enough. but if the infidels were at the edge of the airport shooting Rocket Propelled Grenades at me...then i would gladly take my chances in a Lancair 4 Turbine.
the airplane that comes to mind in comparison is the GeeBee; Jimmy Doolittle said it was the worst airplane he ever flew. AND, just above the runway it dropped a wing 90 degrees, pointing straight down. BUT, that wasn't bad enough, it did have one worse trait. as the pilot slowed down the nose kept rising and required forward stick; just the opposite of any other airplane.
so there is an airplane made to go fast in 1931.
peter
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