X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 02:07:09 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6030164 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:49:34 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.147; envelope-from=peterpaw@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.204]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 14CCB1C000125 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:49:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-mma004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mma004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.191.141]) by mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id E333EE000081 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:48:59 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: 4P AUGERING IN X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: peter williams Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CFC99FF8C3E597_1708_551DE_webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37309-STANDARD Received: from 69.204.230.119 by webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com (64.12.101.83) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:48:59 -0500 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CFC99FF8B33BF7-1708-192D5@webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [69.204.230.119] X-Original-Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:48:59 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:360726080:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33cc51036e4b2ad6 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CFC99FF8C3E597_1708_551DE_webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" HI THERE THE OSTRICH HAS ITS HEAD IN THE SAND it seems everyone is avoiding the issue here with this loss of airplane and= pilot. there is really only one clue at this point; a witness says that the plane = was rotating when it came out the clouds and descended into the ground. i dont pretend to know what happened without the radar track, with the spee= d readouts. A SCENARIO THAT FITS THE DATA WE HAVE SO FAR stalling a 4P is serious business. MAYBE DISORIENTATION; MAYBE AN AUTOPILOT MALFUNCTION; MAYBE UNEXPECTED ICIN= G. MAYBE A TEMPORARY LOSS OF POWER all of which could cause a stall. imagine what it would be like to be IFR and stall a Lancair 4/4P/turbine. = Not Fun. OK,=20 so here you are. nose pointing straight down. you look over at the airspeed= and you see 100 knots (flying speed right???--- wrong, and maybe wrong) do= you have an AOA? it would tell you if you have lift back on the wings...OH= , by the way, did your Gyro(s) tumble. do you have the ability to cage the = Gyro?? or is it self righting. OH and how fast does that happen. and 100 kn= ots is a silly low number and 200 knots is more likely within ten seconds. = STRAIGHT DOWN. What's that? 41 seconds to the ground OR 20,000 feet per min= ute straight down. (remember that the average 4P stalls and rotates 90-120 degrees and points = straight down) SO YOU THINK ah, stall recovery...add power. well a little power? when that doesnt work = more power. HOW MUCH RIGHT RUDDER DID YOU ADD? BETTER BE A LOT. remember th= e turbine engine puts out 1,950 foot pounds of torque v. the 550 foot pound= of torque of the piston engine. even at idle, the turbine is putting consi= derable torque. My suspicion is a TORQUE ROLL and still in a stalled mode.= YOW. (sorta like a Snap Roll we have all seen at Oshkosh; a snap roll is= an accelerated Stall. YES STALL) so you have twenty seconds at most to learn how to do stall recovery in IF= R conditions. BOEING BUILD LANCAIRS when Boeing built three 4P turbine aircraft for their own purposes; (likely= a fast chase plane) they found the tail surfaces unsuitable for the purpos= e. (remember the airplane was designed for 350 HP not 750HP) Boeing redesig= ned the tail feathers including using a thicker airfoil for the horizontal = surface. SO IN THE OPINION OF THE PROS AT BOEING, THE REAR SURFACES WERE INADEQUATE = FOR THE PURPOSE=20 STALLS personally i believe that every pilot of these Lancair(s) be required to se= e the stall of their airplane. sit in the plane and let a pro do the job. m= aybe if you are brave, with the "test pilot" next to you try the recovery y= ourself. do it under the hood?? YOW. does your gyro tumble. YOW again. it is scary just to contemplate. at what altitude did you do your approach to stall training? 8,500 feet, 12= .500 feet. there is a reason. personally, i would be disinclined to ride in a 4 Turbine. i'm not smart en= ough. but if the infidels were at the edge of the airport shooting Rocket P= ropelled Grenades at me...then i would gladly take my chances in a Lancair = 4 Turbine. the airplane that comes to mind in comparison is the GeeBee; Jimmy Doolitt= le said it was the worst airplane he ever flew. AND, just above the runway = it dropped a wing 90 degrees, pointing straight down. BUT, that wasn't bad = enough, it did have one worse trait. as the pilot slowed down the nose kep= t rising and required forward stick; just the opposite of any other airplan= e. so there is an airplane made to go fast in 1931. peter ----------MB_8CFC99FF8C3E597_1708_551DE_webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" HI THERE

THE OSTRICH HAS ITS HEAD IN THE SAND
it seems everyone is avoiding the issue h= ere with this loss of airplane and pilot.
there is really only one clue at this poi= nt; a witness says that the plane was rotating when it came out the clouds and descended into the ground.

i dont pretend to know what happened with= out the radar track, wit= h the speed readouts.

A SCENARIO THAT FITS THE DATA WE HAVE SO FAR
stalling a 4P is serious business.

MAYBE DISORIENTATION; MAYBE AN AUTOPILOT MALFUNCTION; MAY<= font size=3D"2">BE UNEXPECTED ICING. MAYBE A TEMPORARY LOSS OF POWER all of which cou= ld cause a stall.

imagine what it would be like to be IFR and stall a Lancai= r 4/4P/turbine.  Not Fun. OK,

so here you are. nose pointing straight d= own. you look over at the airspeed and you see 100 knots (flying speed right???--- wrong, and maybe wrong) do you h= ave an AOA? it would tell you if you have lift back on the wings...OH, by the way, did your Gyro(s) tumble. do you h= ave the ability to cage the Gyro?? or is it self righting. OH and how fast does th= at happen. and 100 knots is a silly low number and 200 kno= ts is more likely within ten seconds. STR= AIGHT DOWN. What's that? 41 seconds to the ground OR 20,000 feet per minute straight down.
(remember that the average 4P stalls and rotates 90-120 de= grees and points straight down)

SO YOU THINK
ah, stall recovery...add= power. well a little power? when that doesnt work more po= wer. HOW MUCH RIGHT RUDDER DID YOU ADD? BETTER BE A LOT. remember the turbi= ne engine puts out 1,950 foot pounds of torque v. the 550 foot pound of torque of = the piston engine. even at idle, the turbine is put= ting considerable torque. My suspicion is a TORQUE ROLL  a= nd still in a stalled mode.  YOW.  (sorta like a Snap Roll we have all seen at Oshkosh; a snap roll is an accel= erated Stall. YES STALL)
 so you have twenty seconds at m= ost to learn how to do stall recovery in IFR conditions.=

<= /font>= = = BOEI= NG BUILD LANCAIRS
when Boeing built three 4P turbine aircra= ft for their own purposes; (likely a fast chase plane) the= y found the tail surfaces unsuitable for the purpose. (remember the airplane was designed for 350 <= font size=3D"2">HP not 750HP) Boeing rede= signed the tail feathers including using a thicker airfoil for the horizontal surface.
SO IN THE OPINION OF THE PROS AT BOEING, THE REAR SURFACES WERE <= font size=3D"2">INADEQUATE FOR THE PURPOSE<= /font>

STALLS
personally i believe that every pilot of these Lancair(s) be required to see the stall of their airplane. sit in th= e plane and let a pro do the job. maybe if you are brave, with the "test pi= lot" next to you try the recovery yourself. do it under th= e hood?? YOW. does your gyro tumble. YOW again.
it is scary just to contemplate.
at what altitude did you do your approach= to stall training? 8,500 feet, 12.500 fe= et. there is a reason.

personally, i would be disinclined to ride in a 4 Turbine. i'm not smart enough. but if the infidels were at the edge of the airport shootin= g Rocket Propelled Grenades at me...then i would gladly take my chances in a Lancair 4 Turbine.

the airplane that comes to mind in compar= ison is the GeeBee; Jimmy  D<= /font>oolittle said it was the worst airp= lane he ever flew. AND, = just above the runway it dropped a wing 90 degrees, pointing straight down. BUT, that wasn't bad enough,  it did have one worse trait. as = the pilot slowed down the nose kept rising and required fo= rward stick; just the op= posite of any other airplane.
so there is an airplane made to go fast in 1931.

peter
<= /font> ----------MB_8CFC99FF8C3E597_1708_551DE_webmail-m001.sysops.aol.com--