X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:50:37 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm8-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.191] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 5994267 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:51:47 -0500 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.94.237.191; envelope-from=browncc1@verizon.net Received: from [66.94.237.127] by nm8.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2013 01:51:11 -0000 Received: from [98.138.85.47] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2013 01:51:10 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp104.vzn.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2013 01:51:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 872892.72557.bm@smtp104.vzn.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 1JjLbyUVM1npBVi7LZxYlAt_tSxOwvgu3BTtFQBkxsKAJd9 sVSY4Z.jX3lH_AmKj2d2.VKKMB9JshwHyWhwhNjsNnD0htMuzSZxb6CrfOpY _hM6gloA3i7ati9fAXJ5vtKBV_QFrsZZWI2LRbcaPxEnKB0JZSX5tNPh2yNf SM3IJRF3uSXRTkeWi0TSMT0wGq9AZVx3GuvlHb2xBFiCTB8iMPnnGAPHLNEB oMM6prYHoM_57vQfwC5w89t_ZHULZFLUavnRHONTvM5q23CrHUuIkHf9REvr WlMknexXyhkimX6BQf6GmxUPL_bV7sqrm_30652woshZExD5vwBkk9ZmiuEc 4KwzDOdI6P7Kcp_cOvZP_2XNssgOJaqPNF6MnM1DTP.QnxtJ7smBI.aFDm4A _nr_NomJ.Ukirt93Z_L5KjUET3XlopLPb2J4JJtvMqRuNwbAvBUzTtjFKa26 .DpKObJPTPUc4wvh8e2h8lIGU X-Yahoo-SMTP: F49l9g6swBC0R9n8vJIbm7Tf3P8Xlmia8rHIwTlO__Ml Received: from chass-imac-2.home (browncc1@72.64.105.53 with plain) by smtp104.vzn.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 03 Jan 2013 17:51:10 -0800 PST From: Charles Brown Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-999946025 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: stalls X-Original-Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 19:51:07 -0600 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) --Apple-Mail-1-999946025 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jeff, here are two honest answers (in hopes that you'll respond in = kind): 1. Since the CAFE reports on 320/360, Legacy, and IV all cite = reasonable stall characteristics, I guess if I had a Lancair with stall = characteristics worse than what's reported in those tests, I'd try to = fix it, and it shouldn't require stall strips. 2. I have flown many stalls in my Legacy, but not tested modifications = since it stalls exactly like the prototype as reported by the CAFE = testers. =20 Now in response, can you give me your honest answers to these: A. Should a pilot count on never entering a stall, or should he assume = that an inadvertant stall may happen, and prepare for it? B. Is there a better way to prepare for an indavertant stall than = practicing stalls (either incipient or full) and recoveries? C. If an airplane is unrecoverable from a stall, is that airplane safe = to fly on a regular, routine basis? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. I value your insights and would = enjoy swapping stories some day. Charley On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:16 AM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: Would you rather spend you time and money learning to recover from an = aircraft with poor stall characteristics or spending the same dollars = improving those stall characteristics? have found that improving your = aircraft's stall characteristics nets the most bang for the buck. Have = you done stall testing to include placement of stall strips as Charlie = Kohler has suggested? Taming aircraft stall characteristics are = relatively easy with the help of a good test pilot like Len Fox.=20 Jeff Sent from my iPad On Jan 2, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Charles Brown wrote: > Commendable caution but I vote with the guys who say you owe it to = yourself and your passengers to demonstrate your ability to recognize = and recover from a stall. If a bad day comes along and you stall for = any reason -- usually a bunch of little reasons piled up by chance at = one moment -- you need to recover quickly and safely. And if, for some = reason, a stall is unrecoverable in your airplane -- you shouldn't be = flying it. >=20 > Do a good weight-and-balance, and then take it out one day with a = fairly forward CG and give it a shot. Better still, go practice first = in the airplane of a buddy who's done it already. >=20 > Charley Brown >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:15 AM, "David M. Powell CRFA" = wrote: >>=20 >>> I have made the decision prior to purchasing to avoid stalls = altogether in my 360. After reading the stall and stall spin accident = information, I just don't think it's worth the risk. On take-off, I = stay in ground effect for the half second it takes to make it into the = green after wheels up; on landing, I approach well above stall for my = flap configuration, and let the speed bleed off only a few feet above = the threshold. During normal flight, I don't even get near a typical = slow flight speed. Too many variables in a home built airplane with no = precise envelope, a header tank that is PROBABLY where I think it is, = but could be off by 30 or 40 pounds if the gauge is stuck; possible = extra wait in the tail area (water retention after heavy rain). >=20 --Apple-Mail-1-999946025 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii vtailjeff@aol.com wrote:
Would = you rather spend you time and money learning to recover from an aircraft = with poor stall characteristics or spending the same dollars improving = those stall characteristics?  have found that improving your = aircraft's stall characteristics nets the most bang for the buck. Have = you done stall testing to include placement of stall strips as Charlie = Kohler has suggested? Taming aircraft stall characteristics are = relatively easy with the help of a good test pilot like Len = Fox. 

Jeff
Sent from my iPad

On Jan 2, = 2013, at 8:46 PM, Charles Brown <browncc1@verizon.net> = wrote:

Commendable caution but I vote with the guys who = say you owe it to yourself and your passengers to demonstrate your = ability to recognize and recover from a stall.  If a bad day comes = along and you stall for any reason -- usually a bunch of little reasons = piled up by chance at one moment -- you need to recover quickly and = safely.  And if, for some reason, a stall is unrecoverable in your = airplane -- you shouldn't be flying it.

Do a = good weight-and-balance, and then take it out one day with a fairly = forward CG and give it a shot.  Better still, go practice first in = the airplane of a buddy who's done it = already.

Charley = Brown



On = Jan 2, 2013, at 7:15 AM, "David M. Powell CRFA" <superdmpt@sonic.net> = wrote:

I have made the decision = prior to purchasing to avoid stalls=20 altogether in my 360.  After reading the stall and stall spin = accident=20 information, I just don't think it's worth the risk.  On take-off, = I stay=20 in ground effect for the half second it takes to make it into the green = after=20 wheels up; on landing, I approach well above stall for my flap = configuration,=20 and let the speed bleed off only a few feet above the threshold.  = During=20 normal flight, I don't even get near a typical slow flight speed.  = Too many=20 variables in a home built airplane with no precise envelope, a = header tank=20 that is PROBABLY where I think it is, but could be off by 30 or 40 = pounds if the=20 gauge is stuck; possible extra wait in the tail area (water retention = after=20 heavy = rain).


= --Apple-Mail-1-999946025--