X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 14:30:23 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm30.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.95] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0) with ESMTPS id 5973258 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 28 Dec 2012 22:58:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.94.237.95; envelope-from=sdfields68@att.net Received: from [66.94.237.195] by nm30.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2012 03:57:45 -0000 Received: from [68.142.198.106] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2012 03:57:45 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2012 03:57:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 71071.15477.bm@smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: vfuuSmAVM1l_oXLjXWhULZUQh08csHZ9GF1wTy0FoT91HIB erCUeFBVmr_sLJ0HP8Yo_y9UATJRzwb1bwI5ElmhNLGEBL7Jz3UtsSswXzQG Sjkn9N9mxpOVdPPPYalkuRD.WwBX4gCLLsqgkVNMYxg95zaFewtbxP2YiBii J7b8RaD._EXPshts5KnILD0_uo7MXqAAMP1.3ZjbZaOXXkFV5UpcPolY5A9r nUgoGiR4wu7iSTlqq1SWiIVuYbcAihWH3AvkcWGvgyzzOZLzoxUmLGu3TzsV ND62lGkdRTKOK.Mrno1nu2Pq7aM70VAw.dkEzb1PwpdzFJZfv56v3lG48vSw 8rLELLMS7h1zC8HfsAtAHJFftqkAhkEMPkibpX.7Rs.ZyD_sq6Au6tFUjl1d TgeyIQqmIaQGgSwo5cP_wRJqH5kzDh5zWlYe4SguPBFyke9vT X-Yahoo-SMTP: oOs2YV.swBD88T6A.ZRi5opgiddpIVJ9zKnfW4KnPw-- Received: from Study (sdfields68@108.232.180.51 with login) by smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2012 19:57:44 -0800 PST From: "Stan Fields" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Seat Belt update Legacy X-Original-Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 21:57:47 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <002101cde578$aa8101f0$ff8305d0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01CDE546.5FE691F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac3kiZLoOugo20lNTlqIi1eANdKnOwABh1PA Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CDE546.5FE691F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My shoulders are above the seat back so that would rule a seatback mount of any kind. Stan From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Sky2high@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:26 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Seat Belt update Legacy Gents, The shoulder strap ends should not be mounted lower than one's shoulders as this could cause a compression of the spine in an accident. Grayhawk In a message dated 12/27/2012 8:54:41 A.M. Central Standard Time, sdfields68@att.net writes: Hello Paul, I would like to know more about how you mounted the shoulder straps. I am planning to do the same and don't need to re-invent what you've already done. Stan Fields L2KR/G # 201 Austin From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Paul Miller Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:58 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Seat Belt update Legacy I made a safety and comfort upgrade with my Legacy recently and installed 6-point Simpson belts. Here are the details and a few things to consider based on input from safety expert Butch Stevens of Simpson who supplied the new belts: 1) I removed the inertial reels based on Butch's recommendation because reels are not reliable in high-G impacts. I also shortened the shoulder straps and bolted them behind the seats. Belts stretch 15% in an accident so if you want maximum protection from panel impact, remove the long straps from the roof and shorten them as much as possible. 2) These Simpson belts and hardware are rated to 14,000 pounds. Testing shows that most 3,000 lb rated belts don't make that figure. Butch's Citabria belts only tested to 1800lb before failure. Original hardware on our TBM 700s failed at 600lb before we complained and an AD came out on the French hardware. Butch's tests on Hooker failed at less than 3,000lb. 3) Belts lose 50% of their strength in two years from sunlight exposure. 4) High G pullups and crashes without the 6-points (crotch straps) often find the pilot squeezed down near the rudder pedals because they slide underneath the lap belts. You must have the 6 points to avoid this problem. I installed the crotch straps to the same mounting point with the lap belts. I don't believe the mounting location of the lap belt on the center console will hold 3,000 lbs from what I saw on the Legacy so I will have to review that at a later date. I believe the hard point on the seat back and the fuselage will probably hold. I was thinking maybe of bonding an attach point to the rear spar but I have no data yet on how that might work for the crotch straps. The incremental cost was low for me. I sold the old hardware, TSO'd belts and reels on ebay for $250 to a Alaska pilot. This setup from Simpson is available for $299 which is inexpensive for the high quality and ability to handle higher loads and shocks. From a comfort perspective, many of my flights are cross country and the inertial reels always had me bouncing around the cockpit going through Montana in the afternoon or in Texas during the summer. With these hard points, I cinch down and become one with the airplane. Control is better in turbulence and I feel liked I'm locked in a little tighter. The setup is comfortable during long flights. Contact me if you'd like more info on how I attached these shoulder straps or if you have data on mounting the other points. Paul Spruce Creek ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CDE546.5FE691F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My shoulders are above the seat back so that would rule a seatback = mount of any kind.

 

Stan

 

From:= = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Sky2high@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:26 = PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Seat = Belt update Legacy

 

G= ents,

&= nbsp;

T= he shoulder strap ends should not be mounted lower than one's = shoulders as this could cause a compression of the spine in an = accident.

&= nbsp;

G= rayhawk

&= nbsp;

I= n a message dated 12/27/2012 8:54:41 A.M. Central Standard Time, sdfields68@att.net = writes:

Hello Paul,

 

I would like to know more about how you mounted the shoulder straps. = I am planning to do the same and don't need to re-invent what you've = already done.

 

Stan Fields

L2KR/G # 201

Austin

 

= From:= Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Paul Miller
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, = 2012 8:58 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sub= ject: [LML] Seat Belt update = Legacy

 

I made a safety and comfort upgrade with my Legacy = recently and installed 6-point Simpson belts.  Here are the details = and a few things to consider based on input from safety expert Butch = Stevens of Simpson who supplied the new = belts:

 

1) I removed the inertial reels based on Butch's = recommendation because reels are not reliable in high-G impacts.   = I also shortened the shoulder straps and bolted them behind the seats. =   Belts stretch 15% in an accident so if you want maximum = protection from panel impact, remove the long straps from the roof and = shorten them as much as possible.

 

2) These Simpson belts and hardware are rated to = 14,000 pounds.   Testing shows that most 3,000 lb rated belts don't = make that figure.   Butch's Citabria belts only tested to 1800lb = before failure.   Original hardware on our TBM 700s failed at 600lb = before we complained and an AD came out on the French hardware. =  Butch's tests on Hooker failed at less than = 3,000lb.

 

3) Belts lose 50% of their strength in two years = from sunlight exposure.

 

4) High G pullups and crashes without the 6-points = (crotch straps) often find the pilot squeezed down near the rudder = pedals because they slide underneath the lap belts.  You must have = the 6 points to avoid this problem.

 

I installed the crotch straps to the same mounting = point with the lap belts.  I don't believe the mounting location of = the lap belt on the center console will hold 3,000 lbs from what I saw = on the Legacy so I will have to review that at a later date.  I = believe the hard point on the seat back and the fuselage will probably = hold. I was thinking maybe of bonding an attach point to the rear spar = but I have no data yet on how that might work for the crotch = straps.

 

The incremental cost was low for me.  I sold = the old hardware, TSO'd belts and reels on ebay for $250 to a Alaska = pilot.  This setup from Simpson is available for $299 which is = inexpensive for the high quality and ability to handle higher loads and = shocks.

 

From a comfort perspective, many of my flights are = cross country and the inertial reels always had me bouncing around the = cockpit going through Montana in the afternoon or in Texas during the = summer.  With these hard points, I cinch down and become one with = the airplane.  Control is better in turbulence and I feel liked I'm = locked in a little tighter.  The setup is comfortable during long = flights.

 

Contact me if you'd like more info on how I = attached these shoulder straps or if you have data on mounting the other = points.

 

Paul

Spruce Creek

 

 

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