X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 09:56:38 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from blu0-omc3-s1.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.76] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c2) with ESMTP id 5833792 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:20:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.116.76; envelope-from=ian.crowe@sympatico.ca Received: from BLU0-SMTP19 ([65.55.116.72]) by blu0-omc3-s1.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:19:58 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [74.14.61.236] X-EIP: [J/eczPyDYpN0jbnbMUwiBnbcX7lXGx8F] X-Originating-Email: [ian.crowe@sympatico.ca] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: ian.crowe@sympatico.ca Received: from IanPC ([74.14.61.236]) by BLU0-SMTP19.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:19:55 -0700 From: Ian Crowe X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair 320 X-Original-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:19:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0494_01CDAE1D.F3975C00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2012 21:19:55.0443 (UTC) FILETIME=[7C412830:01CDAE3F] ------=_NextPart_000_0494_01CDAE1D.F3975C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Danny: My British heritage showed through, I could not remember the North = American word for circlip. I learnt my engineering terms in England and = they tend to come back to me a s my geriatric memory trips me up from = time to time. Thanks for the heads up on Chris's website I will take a look. We = generally run 600/1300 psi and have been happy with that. Never had a = problem since day on apart from this leak. Will check for damaged O rings when we strip the cylinder, the new owner = has ordered a new cylinder and O ring kit from Lancair so we will = rebuildtest the old one for spare and fit the new one. At that time = will check the O rings for nicks etc. Thanks for the offer of a cylinder but we have the problem covered off I = feel. Regards Ian. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Danny=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:28 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair 320 Ian, I'm not familiar with the term "circlip" but I assume you're talking = about the snap rings, right? =20 I strongly recommend reading the information on Chris Zavatson's site = (http://www.n91cz.com/) regarding the LNC2 hydraulic system. He = provides valuable insight into the system and its pitfalls. He also has = several videos at http://www.n91cz.com/Hydraulics/Lancair_Hydraulics.htm = that have proven very beneficial to me and others when this system = presents issues. I learned a great deal from him supplemented by my own = research, tearing into the system, rebuilding my pump and all of my = cylinders. =20 It certainly sounds like you've isolated the troublesome cylinder. = When you took it apart did you see any noticeably damaged O-rings? A = damaged O-ring would indicate a possible burr or roughness that should = be resolved. =20 Are you getting adequate pressure? You should have no less than about = 500 psi on the low side and about 1200 psi on the high side. Even so, = you should adjust it to about 700/1500 psi respectively. =20 I don't know of a shop in my area (Washington, DC) but I haven't = looked for one either. But I'm sure any decent shop should be able to = rebuild and test it. Just don't tell them it's for an airplane. I = believe these cylinders were originally designed for raising and = lowering outboard boat engines so check with a boat shop in your area. =20 I have two spares in my inventory if you'd like to have one but = they're untested. I'd recommend replacing all of the O-rings before = installing either one of them just to save time. Lancair has them new = at $275 USD the last time I checked. I'll let you have one for $100 USD = but I want your old one in exchange. =20 Good luck and let me know if you want one of my spares. =20 Danny LNC2-360 N 38=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=B0 30' 38.6" Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. =20 From: Ian Crowe [mailto:ian.crowe@sympatico.ca]=20 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:41 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair 320 =20 Hi Danny; =20 No I did not hone and deburr the cylinders. I have no tool to easily = do that and indeed saw no need unless in the way of the circlip grooves. =20 Would the pump experience a leak across the shuttle valve if it was = going to leak and how would you test for that? =20 Once we blanked off the offending cylinder by a process of elimination = the pressure loss stopped. I have gauges on the HP and LP sides to help = me. =20 I too thought the repair was easy and have done more than few in my = time but this one is a little perplexing! =20 Do you know of a good hydraulic shop near you who would repair and = test the cylinder? =20 Regards =20 Ian ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Danny=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:06 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair 320 =20 I'm not. I'm just saying they're easy to repair. When you replaced = the seals did you hone & deburr the cylinder? Have you checked the pump = for an internal leak? =20 Danny LNC2-360, 650 hours N 38=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=B0 30' 38.6" =20 From: Ian Crowe [mailto:ian.crowe@sympatico.ca]=20 Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 1:44 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair 320 =20 Hi Danny: =20 Didn't know you were in the cylinder repair business!! It is the = actuating cylinder that is giving the problem. I have rebuilt it twice = and it lasts for a while and then starts to leak again across the = piston. No sign of any other leaks anywhere and we have blanked off all = the other cylinders and the pump still cycles. So it must be the = cylinder. =20 =20 I have actually sold the plane to my flying buddy who did all the = initial flight testing for me but am helping him with the maintenance = now and again =20 Regards =20 Ian =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Danny=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 6:15 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair 320 =20 Ian, Are you looking for an actuating (gear up & down) cylinder or an = oleo suspension (Ong debonger type) cylinder? I have actuating = cylinders that can be rebuilt and I'll even do it for you. I have no = oleo struts but if yours need to be rebuilt I'm sure it can't be = difficult. =20 Danny LNC2-360, 650 hours N 38=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=B0 30' 38.6" =20 From: Ian Crowe [mailto:ian.crowe@sympatico.ca]=20 Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 12:34 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair 320 =20 Does any one have a spare main gear cylinder for sale? =20 Does anyone know where they can be repaired successfully or = failing that where new ones can be bought? =20 Ian Crowe =20 C-FKRO ------=_NextPart_000_0494_01CDAE1D.F3975C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Danny:
 
My British heritage showed through, I could not = remember the=20 North American word for circlip.  I learnt my engineering terms in = England=20 and they tend to come back to me a s my geriatric memory trips me up = from time=20 to time.
 
Thanks for the heads up on Chris's website I will = take a=20 look.  We generally run 600/1300 psi and have been happy with = that. =20 Never had a problem since day on apart from this leak.
 
Will check for damaged O rings when we strip the = cylinder, the=20 new owner has ordered a new cylinder and O ring kit from Lancair so we = will=20 rebuildtest  the old one for spare and fit the new one.  At = that time=20 will check the O rings for nicks etc.
 
Thanks for the offer of a cylinder but we have the = problem=20 covered off I feel.
 
Regards
 
Ian.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Danny =
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 = 8:28=20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic = cylinder=20 main gear Lancair 320

Ian,

I=92m=20 not familiar with the term =93circlip=94 but I assume you=92re talking = about the=20 snap rings, right?

 

I=20 strongly recommend reading the information on Chris Zavatson=92s site = (http://www.n91cz.com/) regarding = the LNC2=20 hydraulic system.  He = provides=20 valuable insight into the system and its pitfalls.  He also has several videos = at http://ww= w.n91cz.com/Hydraulics/Lancair_Hydraulics.htm=20 that have proven very beneficial to me and others when this system = presents=20 issues.  I learned a = great deal=20 from him supplemented by my own research, tearing into the system, = rebuilding=20 my pump and all of my cylinders.

 

It=20 certainly sounds like you=92ve isolated the troublesome cylinder.  When you took it apart did = you see any=20 noticeably damaged O-rings?  = A=20 damaged O-ring would indicate a possible burr or roughness that should = be=20 resolved.

 

Are=20 you getting adequate pressure?  = You should have no less than about 500 psi on the low side and = about=20 1200 psi on the high side.  = Even=20 so, you should adjust it to about 700/1500 psi=20 respectively.

 

I=20 don=92t know of a shop in my area (Washington, DC) but I haven=92t = looked for one=20 either.  But I=92m sure = any decent=20 shop should be able to rebuild and test it.  Just don=92t tell them = it=92s for an=20 airplane.  I believe = these=20 cylinders were originally designed for raising and lowering outboard = boat=20 engines so check with a boat shop in your = area.

 

I=20 have two spares in my inventory if you=92d like to have one but = they=92re=20 untested.  I=92d = recommend replacing=20 all of the O-rings before installing either one of them just to save=20 time.  Lancair has them = new at=20 $275 USD the last time I checked. =20 I=92ll let you have one for $100 USD but I want your old one in = exchange.

 

Good=20 luck and let me know if you want one of my=20 spares.

 

Danny

LNC2-360

N=20 38=B0 43' 25.7"

W=20 77=B0 30' 38.6"

Nothing=20 is foolproof to a sufficiently talented=20 fool.

 

From:=20 Ian Crowe [mailto:ian.crowe@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Thursday, October 18, = 2012 12:41=20 PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic = cylinder=20 main gear Lancair 320

 

Hi=20 Danny;

 

No I did=20 not hone and deburr the cylinders.  I have no tool to easily do = that and=20 indeed saw no need unless in the way of the circlip=20 grooves.

 

Would the=20 pump experience a leak across the shuttle valve if it was going to = leak and=20 how would you test for that?

 

Once we=20 blanked off the offending cylinder by a process of elimination the = pressure=20 loss stopped.  I have gauges on the HP and LP sides to help=20 me.

 

I too=20 thought the repair was easy and have done more than few in my = time but=20 this one is a little perplexing!

 

Do you=20 know of a good hydraulic shop near you who would repair and test the=20 cylinder?

 

Regards

 

Ian

-----=20 Original Message -----

From:=20 Danny=20

Sent:=20 Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:06 AM

Subject:=20 [LML] Re: Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair=20 320

 

I=92m=20 not.  I=92m just = saying they=92re=20 easy to repair.  When = you=20 replaced the seals did you hone & deburr the cylinder?  Have you checked the pump = for an=20 internal leak?

 

Danny

LNC2-360,=20 650 hours

N=20 38=B0 43' 25.7"

W=20 77=B0 30' 38.6"

 

From:=20 Ian Crowe [mailto:ian.crowe@sympatico.ca<= SPAN=20 class=3DGramE>]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 = 1:44=20 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic = cylinder=20 main gear Lancair 320

 

Hi=20 Danny:

 

Didn't=20 know you were in the cylinder repair business!!  It is the = actuating=20 cylinder that is giving the problem.  I have rebuilt it twice = and it=20 lasts for a while and then starts to leak again across the = piston.  No=20 sign of any other leaks anywhere and we have blanked off all the = other=20 cylinders and the pump still cycles.  So it must be the = cylinder. =20

 

I have=20 actually sold the plane to my flying buddy who did all the initial = flight=20 testing for me but am helping him with the maintenance now and=20 again

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From:=20 Danny=20

Sent:=20 Sunday, October 07, 2012 6:15 = PM

Subject:=20 [LML] Re: Hydraulic cylinder main gear Lancair=20 320

 

Ian,

Are=20 you looking for an actuating (gear up & down) cylinder or an = oleo=20 suspension (Ong debonger type) cylinder?  I have actuating = cylinders that=20 can be rebuilt and I=92ll even do it for you.  I have no oleo struts = but if yours=20 need to be rebuilt I=92m sure it can=92t be=20 difficult.

 

Danny

LNC2-360,=20 650 hours

N=20 38=B0 43' 25.7"

W=20 77=B0 30' 38.6"

 

From:=20 Ian Crowe [mailto:ian.crowe@sympatico.ca]= =20
Sent: Sunday, = October=20 07, 2012 12:34 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Hydraulic = cylinder=20 main gear Lancair 320

 

Does=20 any one have a spare main gear cylinder for = sale?

 

Does=20 anyone know where they can be repaired successfully or failing = that where=20 new ones can be bought?

 

Ian=20 Crowe

 

C-FKRO

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