X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:02:31 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.66] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.6) with ESMTP id 5632136 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:41:58 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.66; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=r2xnYeopyUnie8V/2EisP7TN9c27cCXrsRQ5cncHvbi7KANclxu3pfETT/1V5sXK; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [70.105.247.254] (helo=[192.168.1.24]) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ski0I-00014D-UZ for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:41:23 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-377--229454023 Subject: Re: [LML] LNC2 firewall X-Original-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:41:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da940a0480ea74ac02aa8ab6563cdd728c9e1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 70.105.247.254 --Apple-Mail-377--229454023 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The data on the blanket may be available from HI-Temp INsulation Company = in Camarillo, CA. ...and it may be available from Lancair. I remember that: - it passed a 2000 dF/15 minute burner test to establish compliance with = AC 20-135 - backside temp after 4 minutes was over 300 dF - backside temp after 9 minutes was over 500 dF and slowly rising after = that. I would be interested in any data on the SS/Fiberfrax approach. Things that concern me about the LIV-P firewall: - I'm told that pre-preg loses structural integrity around 280 dF. = That would give you 3 minutes to get it on the ground by above numbers. - The engine mount will conduct heat directly into the firewall - The cabin air valve includes plastic components - The rubber grommet approach for through holes I'm told will convey = smoke into the cockpit. - At 3000 fpm it takes 8 minutes to get down from FL240 It seems to me SS might to some degree mitigate the above issues. If I = had it to do over again maybe: - Blanket over SS - Fully SS air valve - Improved through holes with connectors fastened to the SS - What does FiberFrax do? In the meantime I have temp sensors around the engine compartment and a = Halon canister in the back plumbed to the engine compartment. (To be = used after fuel shutoff, prop stopped-to stop pumping oil, electrical = off, airspeed reduced - to reduce Halon dilution) It is true that vigilant maintenance is the most effective strategy. = On the other hand it got my attention when my "brand new" exhaust system = leaked enough to burn through a blanket near the gascolator. (exhaust = system since replaced). On Jun 29, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Steve Colwell wrote: Is there someone out there that would like to make a comparison (cost, = utility, performance et al) between the blanket and the = stainless/fiberfrax installation? Jim =20 I was stressing out over the best possible fire protection by looking at = fire resistant: Paint, Firewall Penetrations, Sealants, etc.. My = conclusion was to do the best job I could on fire prevention (fuel = lines, anti-chafe, heat shielding, exhaust pipes, fire sleeves) and have = a procedure for getting it on the ground as quickly as possible with = fuel and ignition off. Why? A local Aerobatic Performer flying a Harmon Rocket had a FWF fire = in the pattern. He got it on the runway asap, but not before a hole was = burned in the belly. He died of smoke inhalation. The odds are not = good on a in-flight FWF fire, has anyone heard of a successful = conclusion?=20 =20 Steve Colwell Legacy =20 --Apple-Mail-377--229454023 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii The data on the blanket may be available from = HI-Temp INsulation Company in Camarillo, CA.
...and it may be = available from Lancair.

I remember = that:
- it passed a 2000 dF/15 minute burner test to establish = compliance with AC 20-135
- backside temp after 4 minutes was = over 300 dF
- backside temp after 9 minutes was over 500 dF = and slowly rising after that.

I would be = interested in any data on the SS/Fiberfrax = approach.

Things that concern me about the = LIV-P firewall:
- I'm told that pre-preg loses structural = integrity around 280 dF.   That would give you 3 minutes to get it = on the ground by above numbers.
- The engine mount will = conduct heat directly into the firewall
- The cabin air valve = includes plastic components
- The rubber grommet approach for = through holes I'm told will convey smoke into the cockpit.
- = At 3000 fpm it takes 8 minutes to get down from = FL240

It seems to me SS might to some degree = mitigate the above issues. If I had it to do over again = maybe:
- Blanket over SS
- Fully SS air = valve
- Improved through holes with connectors fastened to the = SS
- What does FiberFrax do?

In the = meantime I have temp sensors around the engine compartment and a Halon = canister in the back plumbed to the engine compartment. (To be used = after fuel shutoff, prop stopped-to stop pumping oil, electrical off, = airspeed reduced - to reduce Halon dilution)

It = is true that vigilant maintenance is the most effective strategy.   = On the other hand it got my attention when my "brand new" exhaust system = leaked enough to burn through a blanket near the gascolator. (exhaust = system since replaced).


On Jun = 29, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Steve Colwell wrote:

Is there = someone out there that would like to make a comparison (cost, utility, = performance et al) between the blanket and the stainless/fiberfrax = installation?
Jim
 
I was stressing out over the best = possible fire protection by looking at fire resistant: Paint, Firewall = Penetrations, Sealants, etc..  My conclusion was to do the best job = I could on fire prevention (fuel lines, anti-chafe, heat shielding, = exhaust pipes, fire sleeves) and have a procedure for getting it on the = ground as quickly as possible with fuel and ignition = off.
Why?  A local Aerobatic Performer flying a = Harmon Rocket had a FWF fire in the pattern.  He got it on the = runway asap, but not before a hole was burned in the belly.  He = died of smoke inhalation.  The odds are not good on a in-flight FWF = fire, has anyone heard of a successful = conclusion? 
 
Steve Colwell  = Legacy