X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:27:02 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from sfa.gami.com ([68.89.254.162] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.6) with ESMTP id 5622711 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:05:01 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.89.254.162; envelope-from=gwbraly@gami.com Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sfa.gami.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7557EC for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:04:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gamimail1.Gami.local (mail.gami.com [10.10.10.33]) by sfa.gami.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376147BD for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:03:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gamimail1.Gami.local ([10.10.12.14]) by gamimail1.Gami.local ([10.10.12.14]) with mapi; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:04:15 -0500 From: George Braly X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List X-Original-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:04:14 -0500 Subject: Re: New TSIO 550-X break in - need suggestions - see response IMPORTANT Thread-Topic: New TSIO 550-X break in - need suggestions - see response IMPORTANT Thread-Index: Ac1QlEEdx4ax7YlbTw+ATsMEdKdA2gA7bMHQ X-Original-Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_C273A1B35F3C6748B52EE0CC2FCEE96C02C2BB7181EBgamimail1Ga_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.3.2 (20050629) (Debian) at gami.com --_004_C273A1B35F3C6748B52EE0CC2FCEE96C02C2BB7181EBgamimail1Ga_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C273A1B35F3C6748B52EE0CC2FCEE96C02C2BB7181EBgamimail1Ga_" --_000_C273A1B35F3C6748B52EE0CC2FCEE96C02C2BB7181EBgamimail1Ga_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> soon as throttle pushed in, cyl's 5 and 6 climb at about 1 degree per se= cond - power always retarded not to exceed 390 and cool down in the 350-360= range before trying to push up power again.<< Bob, When I read that statement - - I stopped what I was doing (preparing a pre= sentation for the ASTM in connection with the approval of the G100UL(tm) av= gas ) - - In order to follow up. THIS IS IMPORTANT: There are VERY FEW THINGS IN AN AIRCRAFT PISTON ENGINE = THAT CAN CAUSE AN OPERATING CYLINDER CHT TO SUDDENLY BEGIN TO INCREASE AT = A RATE OF 1 DEGREE / SECOND ( 360 TO 390 IN 30 SECONDS, FOR EXAMPLE ) - = - - except: 1) Outright pre-ignition; or, 2) Simulated outright-pre-ignition due to improperly advanced timing. MERE DETONATION - - EVEN MEDIUM TO HEAVY DETONATION - - will not do that. Amazingly, if you have caught and limited the CHT rise and managed that at= levels under about 420 dF, as you appear to have done - - then you have= likely NOT done any harm to the cylinders. But a borescope is in order. = And change the spark plugs in those two cylinders. The plugs can be damag= ed from those kinds of combustion events. I have a lot of old and a lot of more recent data that documents all of the= statements made, above. If you will forward to me the engine data downloads from those flights I wi= ll try to take a look at them and I can tell you what was going on. Call me if you want to. I might have some suggestions for you to allow you= to proceed to get your aircraft flying again comfortably. However - - g= etting me the engine download data is the most important thing you can do. Regards, George [cid:image003.jpg@01CD5159.D5BB3F10] George W. Braly Head of Engineering GAMI gwbraly@gami.com toll-free: 888-359-4264 ph: 580-436-4833 x1009 cell:580-421-5645 fx: 580-436-6622 www.gami.com On Jun 20, 2012, at 7:15 PM, Bob Rickard wrote: IV-P non turbine Fellow Pilots: First flight - one pattern only - Max MAP was set too low, low fuel flow - = fixed. Next flight - 10 minutes - Cylinders 5 and 6 temps run away hot at 38.5 MAP= and 45gph. Must retard throttle to less than 25gph (25ish MAP) to keep un= der control. Third flight - after checking baffling for hours and scratching head - sam= e deal. Fly for 1 hour full rich at low power settings. Motor very smooth= and happy at low settings, but as soon as throttle pushed in, cyl's 5 and = 6 climb at about 1 degree per second - power always retarded not to exceed = 390 and cool down in the 350-360 range before trying to push up power again= . Fourth flight - today - a 2.3. Takeoff WOT and full rich. Can't get above= 3000' agl before having to pull power for cal 5 and 6. Pull power to 25gp= h/25 MAP/Full rich and slowly climb to 10.5k MSL. Fly there for a while, c= ylinders all look great in the 340-350 range. After an hour, try full powe= r climb, have to stop within 1500' of climb. So then I leveled out, and se= t my typical speed cruise LOP mode to try something different - 34MAP, 2500= RPM, 18-19 gph. Motor is very happy. All EGT's normal (actually less tha= n previous engine by almost 100 deg), CHT's all between 340-365. I climb w= ith this setting to 16.5 and cruise for another hour, no problem. Return t= o base, set full rich/2700 rpm, and land normally. At retarded power setti= ngs in the pattern, motor stays cool and happy. So what to look at? New motor mounts make the engine sit noticeably lower = in the cowl, and we are checking the rear baffling to make sure there is a = good seal, but would that affect the front 2 cylinders (5 and 6)? Every ot= her indication (including the other 4 cylinder temps) are totally normal. = Any other suggestions out there to look for? Appreciate your experience Bob Rickard --_000_C273A1B35F3C6748B52EE0CC2FCEE96C02C2BB7181EBgamimail1Ga_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

>> soon a= s throttle pushed in, cyl's 5 and 6 climb at about 1 degree per second - po= wer always retarded not to exceed 390 and cool down in the 350-360 range be= fore trying to push up power again.<<

 

= Bob,

 

When I read that statement - -  I stopped what I was doing (prep= aring a presentation for the ASTM in connection with the approval of the G1= 00UL™ avgas ) - -

In order to follow up.

 

THIS IS IMPORTANT:  The= re are VERY FEW THINGS IN AN AIRCRAFT PISTON ENGINE THAT CAN CAUSE AN OPERA= TING CYLINDER  CHT TO SUDDENLY BEGIN TO INCREASE AT A RATE OF 1 DEGREE= / SECOND ( 360 TO 390 IN 30 SECONDS,  FOR EXAMPLE )   - - -=   except:

 

1)      Outright pre-ignition; or,

= 2)      Simulated outright-pre-ignition due to improperly adva= nced timing.

 

MERE DETONATION - - EVEN MEDIUM TO HEAVY DETONATION - - will = not do that. 

 

Amazingly,  if you have caught and limited the = CHT rise and managed that at levels under about 420 dF,  as you appear= to have done - -   then you have likely  NOT done any harm = to the cylinders.  But a borescope is in order.  And change the s= park plugs in those two cylinders.  The plugs can be damaged from thos= e kinds of combustion events.

 

I have a lot of old and a lot of more recen= t data that documents all of the statements made, above.    =

 

If you will forward to me the engine data downloads from those flights I = will try to take a look at them and I can tell you what was going on.<= /o:p>

&nb= sp;

Call= me if you want to.  I might have some suggestions for you to allow yo= u to  proceed to get your aircraft flying again comfortably. &nbs= p; However - - getting me the engine download data is the most important th= ing you can do.

 

Regards,  George

<= /div>

 <= /span>

3DGAMIlogo.jpg=

George W. Braly

Head of Engineering=

GAMI<= span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4= 97D'>

gwbraly@gami.com=

 <= /p>

toll-free: 888-359-4264=

ph: 580-436-4833 x1009

cell:580-421-5645

fx: 580-436-6622

 

www.gami.com

 

 

=  

On Jun 20, 2012, at 7:15 PM, Bob Rickard wrote:

 

= IV-P non turbine Fellow Pilots:

 

 

First flight -= one pattern only - Max MAP was set too low, low fuel flow - fixed.

Next flight - 10 minutes = - Cylinders 5 and 6 temps run away hot at 38.5 MAP and 45gph.  Must re= tard throttle to less than 25gph (25ish MAP) to keep under control.

Third flight  - afte= r checking baffling for hours and scratching head - same deal.  Fly fo= r 1 hour full rich at low power settings.  Motor very smooth and happy= at low settings, but as soon as throttle pushed in, cyl's 5 and 6 climb at= about 1 degree per second - power always retarded not to exceed 390 and co= ol down in the 350-360 range before trying to push up power again.

Fourth flight - today - a = 2.3.  Takeoff WOT and full rich.  Can't get above 3000' agl befor= e having to pull power for cal 5 and 6.  Pull power to 25gph/25 MAP/Fu= ll rich and slowly climb to 10.5k MSL.  Fly there for a while, cylinde= rs all look great in the 340-350 range.  After an hour, try full power= climb, have to stop within 1500' of climb.  So then I leveled out, an= d set my typical speed cruise LOP mode to try something different - 34MAP, = 2500 RPM, 18-19 gph.  Motor is very happy.  All EGT's normal (act= ually less than previous engine by almost 100 deg), CHT's all between 340-3= 65.  I climb with this setting to 16.5 and cruise for another hour, no= problem.  Return to base, set full rich/2700 rpm, and land normally. =  At retarded power settings in the pattern, motor stays cool and happy= .

 

So what to look at?  N= ew motor mounts make the engine sit noticeably lower in the cowl, and we ar= e checking the rear baffling to make sure there is a good seal, but would t= hat affect the front 2 cylinders (5 and 6)?  Every other indication (i= ncluding the other 4 cylinder temps) are totally normal.  Any other su= ggestions out there to look for?  

 

Appreciate your experience

 

 

Bob Rickard


 

 

 

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