X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 20:26:07 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTP id 5586765 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 07 Jun 2012 20:22:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.97; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.69]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q580MJXM020923 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 20:22:19 -0400 Received: from [10.7.65.186] (mobile-166-147-071-171.mycingular.net [166.147.71.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 96034E0000E6; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 20:22:17 -0400 (EDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8L1) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-30483678 X-Original-Message-Id: <13F2EFEE-D42F-4993-8724-0C4B0BE773F8@aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8L1) From: Jeff Edwards Subject: Re: [LML] Re: 4P rear window blew out X-Original-Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 19:22:02 -0500 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:507140032:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29454fd145b96b07 X-AOL-IP: 166.147.71.171 --Apple-Mail-1-30483678 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Serendipity happened. ;) AvSafe=20 Jeff Edwards 314.308.6719 mobile 636.532.5638 office Jeff.edwards@avsafe.com On Jun 7, 2012, at 5:59 PM, wrote: > Unfortunately I do not have an EFIS. I still have the steam gages with a G= armin 530. I would assume the only information about this flight would be th= en on flightaware? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Another miracle happened today: a lady from South Carolina called me and t= old me that she found my wallet in her back yard =E2=80=93 this really made m= y day J J J >=20 > =20 >=20 > Ralf >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Jun 6, 2012, at 5:57 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: >=20 > =20 >=20 > Ralf, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Download your flight data from your EFIS and see how well you reacted --ie= got plane pointed downhill, good rate of descent, etc. You might be surpris= ed. For those not in the best aerobic shape a sudden loss of cabin pressure c= an be quickly debilitating at FL 200-280. Your time of useful consciousness m= ay be measured in seconds. >=20 > =20 >=20 > One important lesson for all is where is your O2 mask and how quickly can y= ou get it on and start the flow of O2? When was the last time you practiced t= his? Is your O2 bottle serviced? How many minutes supply do you have for you= and your passengers? This is not the first Lancair to experience a cabin d= epressurization this year. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Jeff >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: bronnenmeier > To: lml > Sent: Wed, Jun 6, 2012 10:48 am > Subject: [LML] Re: 4P rear window blew out >=20 > Dear subscribers, > =20 > Yesterday morning I had already unexpected visitors from the FAA. The > two gentlemen took pictures of the plane and the missing window and > inspected all my log books and my personal information. They told me > that they have never seen anything like this before and told me that > everything was ok before they left. I also filed a NASA report as Jeff > recommended.=20 > =20 > Thanks also for all the kind comments that I got off the list. > =20 > My seat covers are still fine - fortunately I always have the urge to > use the bathroom heavily before a longer flight - I guess this > protected me this time :-). =20 > =20 > On my flight from 5G7 to ISM I noticed negative cabin altitude during > climb (the differential pressure was still well below 5 psi) - my > girlfriend's suitcase had blocked the outflow valve - I put a tennis > shoe underneath and it fixed the problem. > =20 > On the way back from ISM to 5G7 clearance did not have my flight plan. I > turned off the engine and filed again. I was a little worried about how > the warm engine would start since it was almost 100F outside. Since I > use the new hot start procedure that I got here from the list it always > starts up right away (throttle, mixture pulled out - high boost 20 sec - > switch to low boost - throttle 1/2 " in - start cranking - push mixture > slowly in - it usually starts with the mixture half way in) > =20 > The first two hours into the flight were uneventful above the clouds > with light turbulence and about a 40 kts head wind. My flight bag with > the oxygen masks was in the back on top of all the luggage - big > mistake! - I will always keep the masks in the front now. > =20 > Over sudden a big bang without any reason. Popping ears that hurt, loud > wind noise and a girlfriend that seemed to squeeze off my arm. I look in > the back - no flight bag. I pulled the throttle to idle, disconnected > the auto pilot, moved the speed brakes out and point the nose down. I > call ATC and tell them that I need to descent immediately because of > loss of cabin pressure. I get clearance down to 11K. At 14 k or so I > enter IMC. At 11k the engine does not take the throttle well - I am > still IMC. I check and see that the mixture is still pulled. I put the > MAP to 24 and fix the mixture, level the plane and engage the autopilot. > On flight aware (40941) I see some significant altitude changes - I > don't know if this was me trying to figure out things in IMC or if it > just got reported wrong. > =20 > After the plane flies straight and level in auto pilot again I start > looking around and find that the drivers rear window is missing > completely. I disconnect the AP and start checking rudder and elevator - > everything behaves as it should. I call ATC and tell them that I lost a > window and that everything is under control. I get clearance to 9K. > =20 > At 9 K I start thinking about my options. I read on this list once that > if you get hit or your plane is damaged that the safest speed is the > speed that you are going right now. So I leave the MAP at 23, lean the > engine and decide to continue my trip home to 5G7.=20 > =20 > I inventory the back - a few sweaters and my flight bag are missing. We > put on some additional cloths (cabin temp is now below 50F with heat on > full open). With the reduced speed it was a little more than two hours > until me made it home.=20 > =20 > I can't tell you how relieved I was once I got 3 green from the landing > gear. We touched down uneventful at 10:15 pm or so. > =20 > My wallet (ID, credit cards, SS card... pretty much everything) and my > keys were in my flight bag. Fortunately we had the second shift working > in the plant I got a key to the hangar and a service car. Unfortunately > I am a German resident alien without ID documentation now. I need to get > my green card replaced first. Until then I can't even buy beer at > Walmart because you need an ID for this.=20 > =20 > Attached you see a picture before we left - the second part of the > flight my girlfriend did not look quite as happy as on the picture. She > stayed pretty quiet during the whole situation but I will probably have > to think about some good arguments to get her in the plane again. > =20 > Ralf > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hafen [mailto:j.hafen@comcast.net]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:28 AM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: RE: [LML] Re: 4P rear window blew out > =20 > Yeah, come on Ralf. We want to hear about Doritos bags blowing up and > all that fun stuff! > =20 > John Hafen > Veteran of pressure blow-out over the Saw Tooth mountains of Idaho at > 17.5 Required new seat covers > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of > Bill Bradburry > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:28 AM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: 4P rear window blew out > =20 > Ralf, > That is a pretty calm way to report the incident. You didn't mention > any damage to the seat covers? :>) > =20 > Are we to understand that you just calmly requested a lower altitude and > then continued on to your destination? > =20 > B2 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of > bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 8:26 AM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] 4P rear window blew out > =20 > Dear subscribers, > =20 > Does anybody have a spare driver rear window for a 4P? > =20 > Mine blew out at FL200 last night coming home from Florida. A few > personal belongings got sucked out of the cabin but the airplane handled > just fine and no emergency was declared. > =20 > Three corners of the window are still in the frame. The outside skin of > the plane is fine except on rear vertical line - there is about a three > inch tear. It is pretty obvious that the plexi-glass must have cracked > and not the outside skin. Some minor paint damage on the horizontal > stab. Anybody out there with a similar experience? > =20 > Ralf =20 > =20 > -- > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > =20 > =20 > -- > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > =20 > =20 > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.htm= l > =20 >=20 > =20 --Apple-Mail-1-30483678 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Serendipity happened. ;)

Av= Safe 
Jeff Edwards
314.308.6719 mobile
636.532.5638 o= ffice

On Jun 7, 2012, at 5:59 PM, <bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM> wrot= e:

Unfortunately I d= o not have an EFIS. I still have the steam gages with a Garmin 530. I would a= ssume the only information about this flight would be then on flightaware?

&n= bsp;

Anothe= r miracle happened today: a lady from South Carolina called me and told me t= hat she found my wallet in her back yard =E2=80=93 this really made my day <= /span>J= J = J

 

Ralf

 

On Jun 6, 2012, at 5:= 57 PM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote:

 

Ralf,

 

Download your flight data from your= EFIS and see how well you reacted --ie got plane pointed downhill, good&nbs= p;rate of descent, etc. You might be surprised. For those not in the best ae= robic shape a sudden loss of cabin pressure can be quickly debilitating at FL= 200-280. Your time of useful consciousness may be measured in seconds.

&n= bsp;

One important lesson for all is where is your O2 mask and how quickly c= an you get it on and start the flow of O2? When was the last time you practi= ced this? Is your O2 bottle serviced? How many minutes supply do you have fo= r you and your passengers?  This is not the first Lancair to experience= a cabin depressurization this year.

 

Jeff

 


 =



-----Original Mess= age-----
From: bronnenmeier <bronnenmeier@GROBSYST= EMS.COM>
To: lml <= lml@lancaironline.net>Sent: Wed, Jun 6, 2012 10:48 am
Subject: [LML] Re: 4P rear window blew o= ut

De=
ar subscribers,
=
 
Yesterday morning I h=
ad already unexpected visitors from the FAA. The
two gentlem=
en took pictures of the plane and the missing window and
ins=
pected all my log books and my personal information. They told me=

that they have never seen anything like this before and told me that
everything was ok before they left. I also filed a NASA report=
 as Jeff
recommended. 
 
Thanks also for all the kind comments that I got off the list.<=
/span>
 
=
My seat covers are still fine - fortunately I al=
ways have the urge to
use the bathroom heavily before a long=
er flight  - I guess this
protected me this time :-).&n=
bsp; 
 
On my flight from 5G7 to ISM I n=
oticed negative cabin altitude during
climb (the differentia=
l pressure was still well below 5 psi) - my
girlfriend's sui=
tcase had blocked the outflow valve - I put a tennis<=
/pre>
shoe un=
derneath and it fixed the problem.
 <=
/tt>
On=
 the way back from ISM to 5G7 clearance did not have my flight plan. I<=
/o:p>
turned off the engine and filed again. I was a little worried abo=
ut how
the warm engine would start since it was almost 100F o=
utside. Since I
=
use the new hot start procedure that I got h=
ere from the list it always
starts up right away (throttle, m=
ixture pulled out - high boost 20 sec -
switch to low boost -=
 throttle 1/2 " in - start cranking - push mixture
slowly in=
 - it usually starts with the mixture half way in)
&nbs=
p;
The first two hours into the flight were uneventful above the c=
louds
with light turbulence and about a 40 kts head wind. My f=
light bag with
<=
tt>the oxygen masks was in the back on top of al=
l the luggage - big
mistake! - I will always keep the masks i=
n the front now.
 
Over sudden a big ba=
ng without any reason. Popping ears that hurt, loud
wind noi=
se and a girlfriend that seemed to squeeze off my arm. I look in<=
/span>
the back - no flight bag. I pulled the throttle to idle, disconnected
the auto pilot, moved the speed brakes out and point the nose d=
own. I
call ATC and tell them that I need to descent immedia=
tely because of
=
loss of cabin pressure. I get clearance down=
 to 11K. At 14 k or so I
enter IMC. At 11k the engine does n=
ot take the throttle well - I am
still IMC. I check and see t=
hat the mixture is still pulled. I put the
MAP to 24 and fix t=
he mixture, level the plane and engage the autopilot.=

On fli=
ght aware (40941) I see some significant altitude changes - I
don't know if this was me trying to figure out things in IMC or if it=

just got reported wrong.
 <=
/tt>
Af=
ter the plane flies straight and level in auto pilot again I start
looking around and find that the drivers rear window is missing<=
/o:p>
completely. I disconnect the AP and start checking rudder and ele=
vator -
everything behaves as it should. I call ATC and tell=
 them that I lost a
window and that everything is under cont=
rol. I get clearance to 9K.
 
At 9 K I s=
tart thinking about my options. I read on this list once that
if you get hit or your plane is damaged that the safest speed is the<=
/o:p>
speed that you are going right now. So I leave the MAP at 23, lea=
n the
engine and decide to continue my trip home to 5G7. 
 
I inventory the back - a few sweaters an=
d my flight bag are missing. We
put on some additional cloth=
s (cabin temp is now below 50F with heat on
full open). With=
 the reduced speed it was a little more than two hours
until=
 me made it home. 
 
I can't tell you h=
ow relieved I was once I got 3 green from the landing=

gear. W=
e touched down uneventful at 10:15 pm or so.
 
My wallet (ID, credit cards, SS card... pretty much everything) and m=
y
keys were in my flight bag. Fortunately we had the second s=
hift working
in the plant I got a key to the hangar and a se=
rvice car. Unfortunately
I am a German resident alien withou=
t ID documentation now. I need to get
my green card replaced=
 first. Until then I can't even buy beer at
Walmart because y=
ou need an ID for this. 
 
=

Attached you=
 see a picture before we left - the second part of the
fligh=
t my girlfriend did not look quite as happy as on the picture. She
stayed pretty quiet during the whole situation but I will probably ha=
ve
to think about some good arguments to get her in the plan=
e again.
 
Ralf<=
/pre>
&n=
bsp;
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hafen [<=
a href=3D"mailto:j.hafen@comcast.net?">mailto:j.hafen@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June=
 06, 2012 8:28 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: 4P rear window blew out
 
Yeah, come on Ralf.  We want to hear about Dori=
tos bags blowing up and
all that fun stuff!
=
 
John Hafen
Veteran of pressure blow-o=
ut over the Saw Tooth mountains of Idaho at
17.5 Required ne=
w seat covers
 
-----Original Message----=
-
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironlin=
e.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Bradburry=

S=
ent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:28 AM
To: lml@lancaironli=
ne.net
<=
tt>Subject: [LML] Re: 4P rear window blew out
 
Ralf,
That is a pretty c=
alm way to report the incident.  You didn't mention
any=
 damage to the seat covers?  :>)
 
Are we to understand that you just calmly requested a lower altitude and=

then continued on to your destination?
 
B2
 
-----Original M=
essage-----
=
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@la=
ncaironline.net] On Behalf Of
br=
onnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2=
012 8:26 AM
=
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] 4P rear window blew out
 
Dear subscribers,
 
Does anybo=
dy have a spare driver rear window for a 4P?
 
Mine blew out at FL200 last night coming home from Florida. A few
personal belongings got sucked out of the cabin but the airpla=
ne handled
<=
span style=3D"color:black">just fine and no emergency was declared.
 
<=
tt>Three corners of the window are still in the f=
rame. The outside skin of
the plane is fine except on rear v=
ertical line - there is about a three
inch tear. It is prett=
y obvious that the plexi-glass must have cracked
and not the=
 outside skin. Some minor paint damage on the horizontal
sta=
b. Anybody out there with a similar experience?
=

 <=
/o:p>
Ralf  
 
--<=
/span>
For archives and unsub
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lis=
ts/lml/List.html
 
= 
 <=
/o:p>
--
For archives and unsub<=
/pre>
=
http://mail=
.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
 =
;
 

 

 

= --Apple-Mail-1-30483678--