X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 10:43:38 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.68] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTP id 5557348 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 24 May 2012 07:36:42 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.68; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=hd9s93WdRDJgjzyGTpLSSoHvRfnpShIfoKgzmg68RxjzWWN90I8f+vjj4PBNPTjU; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [70.20.59.69] (helo=[192.168.1.24]) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1SXWKv-0004Yl-40 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 24 May 2012 07:36:09 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-57-922399622 Subject: gascolators X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 07:36:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <8EA1BFE3-7E56-428F-AA80-CC1209648D02@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da9402fd0be88af258636053d28f59416f12d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 70.20.59.69 --Apple-Mail-57-922399622 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 thread creep here so I'll change the subject. Does anyone care to argue for or against gascolators in general? On May 23, 2012, at 1:17 PM, Robert R Pastusek wrote: I second Don=92s recommendation. Take the filters out, and thoroughly = flush your tanks/lines before you start your engine for the first time. =20 I built my IV-P with a large capacity/high flow filter between each wing = tank and the fuel tank selector valve. Passed all fuel flow/leak tests, = but one of the very experienced Lancair test pilots looked at my =93good = idea=94 and said he wouldn=92t fly the airplane with them installed. = Seemed a petty thing to me=85but I removed them anyway. (He did not fly = the airplane, but I finally rationalized that I was asking advice from a = professional and was being pretty foolish not to accept it=85) In almost = 800 hours of flying, the fuel system has been faultless. I flushed the = tanks/lines pretty thoroughly during tank/system testing (see my article = in the just-released LOBO newsletter), and have collected no more than a = trace of junk in the gascolator over the four years I=92ve been flying. =20 Bob Pastusek Berni , I do not have any filters in my fuel system other than the = gascolator. I have an IO-550N. Never any fuel issues other than = vaporization on a hot day. Personally I would not have them. Don G. On May 22, 2012 3:30 PM, "Berni Breen" wrote: Hi Don: =20 No filter between the two. I have 2 filters between the fuel selector = and the gascolator. I pulled both of those today to check but = discovered no restrictions. I had not thought about removing them...do = you recommend I do? =20 Thank you. Berni Breen Sent from my iPhone On May 22, 2012, at 8:32 AM, don Grabiel wrote: Berni, just a thought, but do you have a fuel filter in between the = gascolator and the manual fuel pump on the engine? If so try removing = it. Don G. On May 21, 2012 4:31 PM, "Berni Breen" wrote: Many of you guys have offered suggestions to help me remedy my ongoing = engine surge challenge. As a reminder...my fuel injected IO360 displays = a very pronounced surge during idle and taxi following a flight and = brief shutdown/restart. The problem never occurs when the engine iis = cool. =20 =20 I have tried suggestions such as ground running the engine at 1700 rpm = for extended periods following a restart in an attempt to get some air = moving through the cowl but that has resulted in limited success. So = far my only remedy is to let the engine sit for a long enough period to = let it cool significantly. If I do, I have zero issues with surging. =20 I even removed my fuel injector servo and sent it off for overhaul (not = an inexpensive undertaking) as another attempt to remedy my problem. = That idea does not address what I firmly believe to be the problem, heat = causing fuel vapor lock, but I tried it anyway. I reinstalled the servo = yesterday and test flew. The plane performed flawlessly as it always = does following a first start. When I returned home and let it sit for = 20 minutes, restarted and went to taxi, the surge was just as pronounced = as ever. =20 All of my fuel lines are insulated and fire sleeved. The only exposed = lines are the small lines that run up to the spider on the top of the = engine. I do not have any fuel leaks. Turning on my electric fuel pump, = while increasing fuel pressure from 20 to 25 psi, does not remedy the = surge issue. =20 As posted here before I have taken the active and lifted off several = times with this surge issue going on as the surge quits once I apply = full throttle. As several of you have pointed out this is not a safe = way to proceed therefore I am again asking for ideas/suggestions from = you guys. =20 Many years ago in my drag racing days me and several of my friends would = install a cooling can to cool down the fuel and therefore (we believed) = helped us produce more power. We would use a coffee can, insert a coil = of copper fuel line in the can, put this contraption in line (fuel line) = fill it and fill it with ice prior to a run. While this is not a = practical long term solution, is this the kind of thing I should be = doing to prove/disprove my belief that I have a vapor lock issue? =20 I sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions! =20 Berni Breen Lancair 360 =20 =20 --Apple-Mail-57-922399622 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 thread creep here so I'll change the = subject.

Does anyone care to argue for or against = gascolators in general?


On May = 23, 2012, at 1:17 PM, Robert R Pastusek wrote:

I second = Don=92s recommendation. Take the filters out, and thoroughly flush your = tanks/lines before you start your engine for the first = time.
I built my = IV-P with a large capacity/high flow filter between each wing tank and = the fuel tank selector valve. Passed all fuel flow/leak tests, but one = of the very experienced Lancair test pilots looked at my =93good idea=94 = and said he wouldn=92t fly the = airplane with them installed. Seemed a petty thing to me=85but I removed = them anyway. (He did not fly the airplane, but I finally rationalized = that I was asking advice from a professional and was being pretty = foolish not to accept it=85) In almost 800 hours of flying, the fuel = system has been faultless. I flushed the tanks/lines pretty thoroughly = during tank/system testing (see my article in the just-released LOBO = newsletter), and have collected no more than a trace of junk in the = gascolator over the four years I=92ve been = flying.
 
Bob = Pastusek

Berni , I do not have any filters in my fuel system other than = the gascolator.  I have an IO-550N. Never any fuel issues other = than vaporization on a hot day. Personally I would not have them.  = Don G.

On May 22, 2012 3:30 PM, "Berni Breen" = <bbreen@cableone.net> = wrote:
Hi = Don:
No filter between the = two.  I have 2 filters between the fuel selector and the = gascolator.  I pulled both of those today to check but discovered = no restrictions.  I had not thought about removing them...do you = recommend I do?
Thank = you.

Berni Breen
Sent from my = iPhone


On May 22, 2012, at 8:32 AM, don Grabiel <grabiel71@gmail.com> = wrote:

Berni, = just a thought, but do you have a fuel filter in between the gascolator = and the manual fuel pump on the engine? If so try removing = it.      Don G.

On May 21, 2012 4:31 PM, "Berni Breen" <bbreen@cableone.net> = wrote:
Many of you guys have offered = suggestions to help me remedy my ongoing engine surge challenge. =  As a reminder...my fuel injected IO360 displays a very pronounced = surge during idle and taxi following a flight and brief = shutdown/restart.  The problem never occurs when the engine iis = cool.  
I have tried = suggestions such as ground running the engine at 1700 rpm for extended = periods following a restart in an attempt to get some air moving through = the cowl but that has resulted in limited success.  So far my only = remedy is to let the engine sit for a long enough period to let it cool = significantly.  If I do, I have zero issues with = surging.
I even removed my = fuel injector servo and sent it off for overhaul (not an inexpensive = undertaking) as another attempt to remedy my problem.  That idea = does not address what I firmly believe to be the problem, heat causing = fuel vapor lock, but I tried it anyway.  I reinstalled the servo = yesterday and test flew.  The plane performed flawlessly as it = always does following a first start.  When I returned home and let = it sit for 20 minutes, restarted and went to taxi, the surge was just as = pronounced as ever.
All of my fuel lines = are insulated and fire sleeved.  The only exposed lines are the = small lines that run up to the spider on the top of the engine. I do not = have any fuel leaks.  Turning on my electric fuel pump, while = increasing fuel pressure from 20 to 25 psi, does not remedy the surge = issue.
As posted here before = I have taken the active and lifted off several times with this surge = issue going on as the surge quits once I apply full throttle.  As = several of you have pointed out this is not a safe way to proceed = therefore I am again asking for ideas/suggestions from you = guys.
Many years ago in my = drag racing days me and several of my friends would install a cooling = can to cool down the fuel and therefore (we believed) helped us produce = more power.  We would use a coffee can, insert a coil of copper = fuel line in the can, put this contraption in line (fuel line) fill it = and fill it with ice prior to a run.  While this is not a practical = long term solution, is this the kind of thing I should be doing to = prove/disprove my belief that I have a vapor lock = issue?
I sincerely = appreciate any and all suggestions!
 
Berni = Breen
Lancair = 360