X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:25:59 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-pb0-f52.google.com ([209.85.160.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTPS id 5556369 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 23 May 2012 16:23:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.52; envelope-from=bbreen@cableone.net Received: by pbbro8 with SMTP id ro8so10483959pbb.25 for ; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:22:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=Mxs3RnCtJNnH2TiDd1v12TaHoCJdUTSa2O4dmxb5yS0=; b=eORSWTqYMlI6pqV1j2YiExqJ9UgTrxwIlnhBnWX1NEHgs1mNbxc/PTeWgxWNWJJxnR CMfTiuRzbse3rduK1r6OI7dkq/CLbPjD3IB12cg7mJvM1Ff0l57nPoHkRRGHa0Rty/ww dRwdZyEq2Hydc6XzBXl5NGv3tVOpWlx/WtSdaS2TokKLkPyyi3IcomYWBSBJqKR/WrR8 9tLbwES6nzd5CZzaoDB8gq3Vw5AT5S7UbhhoB9/m2QoEkek40rY8YdZI4+CZmmERWf7u NtwqQvoDIrH6BFbKHiGy5I/MWOEBL1mBUwLOir5k86Ks8LUCG7SjSWPphRgDVHJ0jfqn DF/g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.228.170 with SMTP id sj10mr13428403pbc.106.1337804579410; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.62.66 with HTTP; Wed, 23 May 2012 13:22:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: X-Original-Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:22:58 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: 360 still surging From: Berni Breen X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2ed357bc126404c0b9e616 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnUSsLeTfPtlLmUQN3r+xRicasx3/Lsdc16jLJGOINtvfaAqJQIDhzTWojTu9Ov6DnRRHVD --047d7b2ed357bc126404c0b9e616 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob: I just returned from working on my airplane. I found that one of the two items that I thought to be an in line fuel filter was in fact a check valve which is functioning properly. The other suspected fuel filter has now been removed...sort of. I opened it and inspected the element closely finding very little "stuff" in it. I reinstalled it but without the element. It is now nothing more than an empty tube. I did not eliminate it entirely as I do not have the necessary items to make up that void in my fuel line. I have not test flown yet as I am in the throws of installing a blast air line for which I need a 4' piece of scat that will be delivered to me tomorrow late afternoon. As soon as I receive it I will install, cowl up and make a flight followed by a shutdown and see if either or both of my changes have improved performance. Thanks! Berni On Wednesday, May 23, 2012, Robert R Pastusek wrote: > I second Don=92s recommendation. Take the filters out, and thoroughly > flush your tanks/lines before you start your engine for the first time.**= * > * > > ** ** > > I built my IV-P with a large capacity/high flow filter between each wing > tank and the fuel tank selector valve. Passed all fuel flow/leak tests, b= ut > one of the very experienced Lancair test pilots looked at my =93good idea= =94 > and said he wouldn=92t fly the airplane with them installed. Seemed a pet= ty > thing to me=85but I removed them anyway. (He did not fly the airplane, bu= t I > finally rationalized that I was asking advice from a professional and was > being pretty foolish not to accept it=85) In almost 800 hours of flying, = the > fuel system has been faultless. I flushed the tanks/lines pretty thorough= ly > during tank/system testing (see my article in the just-released LOBO > newsletter), and have collected no more than a trace of junk in the > gascolator over the four years I=92ve been flying.**** > > ** ** > > Bob Pastusek**** > > Berni , I do not have any filters in my fuel system other than the > gascolator. I have an IO-550N. Never any fuel issues other than > vaporization on a hot day. Personally I would not have them. Don G.**** > > On May 22, 2012 3:30 PM, "Berni Breen" > > wrote:**** > > Hi Don:**** > > ** ** > > No filter between the two. I have 2 filters between the fuel selector an= d > the gascolator. I pulled both of those today to check but discovered no > restrictions. I had not thought about removing them...do you recommend I > do?**** > > ** ** > > Thank you. > > Berni Breen**** > > Sent from my iPhone**** > > > On May 22, 2012, at 8:32 AM, don Grabiel > > wrote:**** > > Berni, just a thought, but do you have a fuel filter in between the > gascolator and the manual fuel pump on the engine? If so try removing > it. Don G.**** > > On May 21, 2012 4:31 PM, "Berni Breen" > > wrote:**** > > Many of you guys have offered suggestions to help me remedy my ongoing > engine surge challenge. As a reminder...my fuel injected IO360 displays = a > very pronounced surge during idle and taxi following a flight and brief > shutdown/restart. The problem never occurs when the engine iis cool. **= * > * > > ** ** > > I have tried suggestions such as ground running the engine at 1700 rpm fo= r > extended periods following a restart in an attempt to get some air moving > through the cowl but that has resulted in limited success. So far my onl= y > remedy is to let the engine sit for a long enough period to let it cool > significantly. If I do, I have zero issues with surging.**** > > ** ** > > I even removed my fuel injector servo and sent it off for overhaul (not a= n > inexpensive undertaking) as another attempt to remedy my problem. That > idea does not address what I firmly believe to be the problem, heat causi= ng > fuel vapor lock, but I tried it anyway. I reinstalled the servo yesterda= y > and test flew. The plane performed flawlessly as it always does followin= g > a first start. When I returned home and let it sit for 20 minutes, > restarted and went to taxi, the surge was just as pronounced as ever.**** > > ** ** > > All of my fuel lines are insulated and fire sleeved. The only exposed > lines are the small lines that run up to the spider on the top of the > engine. I do not have any fuel leaks. Turning on my electric fuel pump, > while increasing fuel pressure from 20 to 25 psi, does not remedy the sur= ge > issue.**** > > ** ** > > As posted here before I have taken the active and lifted off several time= s > with this surge issue going on as the surge quits once I apply full > throttle. As several of you have pointed out this is not a safe way to > proceed therefore I am again asking for ideas/suggestions from you guys.*= * > ** > > ** ** > > Many years ago in my drag racing days me and several of my friends would > install a cooling can to cool down the fuel and therefore (we believed) > helped us produce more power. We would use a coffee can, insert a coil o= f > copper fuel line in the can, put this contraption in line (fuel line) fil= l > it and fill it with ice prior to a run. While this is not a practical lo= ng > term solution, is this the kind of thing I should be doing to > prove/disprove my belief that I have a vapor lock issue?**** > > ** ** > > I sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions!**** > > ** ** > > Berni Breen**** > > Lancair 360**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > --047d7b2ed357bc126404c0b9e616 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob:

I just returned from working on my airplane. =A0= I found that one of the two items that I thought to be an in line fuel filt= er was in fact a check valve which is functioning properly. =A0The other su= spected fuel filter has now been removed...sort of. =A0I opened it and insp= ected the element closely finding very little "stuff" in it. =A0I= reinstalled it but without the element. =A0It is now nothing more than an = empty tube. =A0I did not eliminate it entirely as I do not have the necessa= ry items to make up that void in my fuel line. =A0I have not test flown yet= as I am in the throws of installing a blast air line =A0for which I need a= 4' piece of scat that will be delivered to me tomorrow late afternoon.= =A0As soon as I receive it I will install, cowl up and make a flight follo= wed by a shutdown and see if either or both of my changes have improved per= formance.

Thanks!

Berni
=
On Wednesday, May 23, 2012, Robert R Pastusek wrote:

I second Don=92s recommendation. Take th= e filters out, and thoroughly flush your tanks/lines before you start your engine for the first time.

=A0

I built my IV-P with a large capacity/hi= gh flow filter between each wing tank and the fuel tank selector valve. Passed all fuel flow/leak tests, but one of the very experienced La= ncair test pilots looked at my =93good idea=94 and said he wouldn=92t fly the airplane with them installed. Seemed a pet= ty thing to me=85but I removed them anyway. (He did not fly the airplane, but I finally rationalized that I was asking= advice from a professional and was being pretty foolish not to accept it= =85) In almost 800 hours of flying, the fuel system has been faultless. I f= lushed the tanks/lines pretty thoroughly during tank/system testing (see my article in the just-released LOBO newsl= etter), and have collected no more than a trace of junk in the gascolator o= ver the four years I=92ve been flying.

=A0

Bob Pastusek=

Berni , I do not have any filters in my fuel system other than the gasco= lator.=A0 I have an IO-550N. Never any fuel issues other than vaporization = on a hot day. Personally I would not have them.=A0 Don G.

On May 22, 2012 3:30 PM, "Berni Breen" <= ;bbreen@cableone.net> wrote:

Hi Don:

=A0

No filter between the two. =A0I have 2 filters betwe= en the fuel selector and the gascolator. =A0I pulled both of those today to= check but discovered no restrictions. =A0I had not thought about removing = them...do you recommend I do?

=A0

Thank you.

Berni Breen

Sent from my iPhone


On May 22, 2012, at 8:32 AM, don Grabiel <grabiel71= @gmail.com> wrote:

Berni, just a thought, but do you have a fuel filter in between the gasc= olator and the manual fuel pump on the engine? If so try removing it.=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 Don G.

On May 21, 2012 4:31 PM, "Berni Breen" <= ;bbreen@cableone.net> wrote:

Many of you guys have offered suggestions to help me= remedy my ongoing engine surge challenge. =A0As a reminder...my fuel injec= ted IO360 displays a very pronounced surge during idle and taxi following a= flight and brief shutdown/restart. =A0The problem never occurs when the engine iis cool. =A0

=A0

I have tried suggestions such as ground running the = engine at 1700 rpm for extended periods following a restart in an attempt t= o get some air moving through the cowl but that has resulted in limited suc= cess. =A0So far my only remedy is to let the engine sit for a long enough period to let it cool significantly. = =A0If I do, I=A0have zero issues with surging.

=A0

I even removed my fuel injector servo and sent it of= f for overhaul (not an inexpensive undertaking) as another attempt to remed= y my problem. =A0That idea does not address what I firmly believe to be the= problem, heat causing fuel vapor lock, but I tried it anyway. =A0I reinstalled the servo yesterday and test flew.= =A0The plane performed flawlessly as it always does following a first star= t. =A0When I returned home and let it sit for 20 minutes, restarted and wen= t to taxi, the surge was just as pronounced as ever.

=A0

All of my fuel lines are insulated and fire sleeved.= =A0The only exposed lines are the small lines that run up to the spider on= the top of the engine. I do not have any fuel leaks. =A0Turning on my elec= tric fuel pump, while increasing fuel pressure from 20 to 25 psi, does not remedy the surge issue.=

=A0

As posted here before I have taken the active and li= fted off several times with this surge issue going on as the surge quits on= ce I apply full throttle. =A0As several of you have pointed out this is not= a safe way to proceed therefore I am again asking for ideas/suggestions from you guys.

=A0

Many years ago in my drag racing days me and several= of my friends would install a cooling can to cool down the fuel and theref= ore (we believed) helped us produce more power. =A0We would use a coffee ca= n, insert a coil of copper fuel line in the can, put this contraption in line (fuel line) fill it and fill it w= ith ice prior to a run. =A0While this is not a practical long term solution= , is this the kind of thing I should be doing to prove/disprove my belief t= hat I have a vapor lock issue?

=A0

I sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions!

=A0

Berni Breen

Lancair 360

=A0

=A0

--047d7b2ed357bc126404c0b9e616--